TCP

TG_King

BUIDL is just a tokenized fund. Chainlink is an oracle network protocol. Not sure why you’re implying that BUIDL or something like it would ever be a competitor to Chainlink, they don’t even remotely do the same thing. The existence of funds like BUIDL is why Chainlink is needed. That’s like saying Hyundai Elantra is a competitor to highway construction companies or something like that. Or that Reddit is a competitor to TCP/IP

uncapchad

First you bed down the architecture, then you start building on top of that. The internet was originally text based. You had to know how to navigate at the lower levels using TCP/IP, FTP, SMTP, IRC, explore directories and bulleting boards, before the evolution of HTTP. The tools and standards for Bitcoin and other blockchains will come. There are enough users now, enough reason to go forward with projects and in general, it's easier to make a case for funding than it was in the past. Don't underestimate the world-wide IT community. Just because legislators and the fearful see everything with centralised goggles, doesn't mean that is the only way to solve a problem.

Odd_Monk_132

>You buy Bitcoin to make profit Faulty premise to start with. Bitcoin isn't a stock. People buy bitcoin to use it. The human rights foundation a list of things that they **need** bitcoin for. There are also tonnes of softwares and products that are building on top of bitcoin protcol layer, the same way TCP/IP is used. So you have products like Strike, Bitrefil and apps like Lightning and Nostr as well as protocols like DID. Others use it for p2p trade, international payments, Micro-fee services and so on. One could perhaps argue the degree of utility, but to say that there is none is a disingenous argument.

Corbimos

2 things, 1) You don't understand open source protocols. Bitcoin is not Nokia. Bitcoin is TCP/IP. Do you think there will be a better Internet? The answer is no. Even if a better protocol comes along, it won't be competing with TCP/IP. It will be worked into that stack and make everything better. We won't have two competing internets until one wins. The protocol will evolve. Bitcoin is the same. If a new protocol comes along that is proven, it will either be incorporated into the current Bitcoin stack, or Bitcoin will be forked. Either way, the UTXO set will live on, and we all still have the coins we hold the keys for. 2) Check your financial privilege. Bitcoin isn't about the price. It's about the freedom it enables. That is the utility. That is what Bitcoin grows. Sovereignty and freedom. Price in relation to its Scarcity is just a wonderful side effect. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/check-your-financial-privilege

godofleet

i just don't see a world where people stop caring about all the endless comfort and abundance we have, especially in the west... even if we have a massive and horrific world war - even if we use nukes to (some extent) i expect there will always be humans in the future still using electricity, the internet, and so on... we didn't stop using electricity or communications technology after the first and second world war... in fact adoption of those techs only ever increased - the wars were just tiny distractions comparatively. sure, there might be disruption... there could be some horrible nuclear winter and maybe no one survives... but if we do, bitcoin would still be a thing... if somehow every single node was lost, the IDEA of bitcoin would still be a thing... just like TCP/IP and Email ... you're not holding it for wartime, your holding it for the peace and prosperity time that comes after.

Corbimos

Seeds are a standard, a protocol. Same with the passphrase. If the wallet supports that standard (BIP39), it will be interoperable. Bitcoin is like TCP/IP (the internet). The internet works the same on different types of computers because they support the same protocol. You don't have a different internet on different types of hardware. If a wallet supports BIP39 or a node supports Bitcoin, it will all work the same.

JerryLeeDog

This is totally normal for a halving. Look at the 2016 halving. Besides, BTC just blew up from $40k to $70k in a couple weeks. Can't go up like that forever. As a matter of fact, we need a long cool down after what happened before the halving. As for ETH, don't mean to sound "condescending" but the truth is: ETH is a pre-mined and centralized, made for profits, shitcoin. It will bleed against Bitcoin forever because more and more people will understand this in the same way more and more people will understand why Bitcoin is already the TCP/IP of digital money. People cannot unlearn these things.

Ruzhyo04

TCP/IP is a scam

misunderstandingit

I have no fucking CLUE how TCP/IP works and I use it every day.

JanPB

It's like saying TCP/IP or MIDI are not "modern" enough. All that stuff you mention is done on level 2 layers. Like TCP/IP is not burdened with the WWW, it's done by the HTML protocol riding on top instead. Same thing with Bitcoin. Sheesh, it's really a super-old hat, why do people get constantly confused by the basics?

JerryLeeDog

Did anything flip TCP/IP? No. And there is a reason. It's not even a chance at this point.

JerryLeeDog

It's already the TCP/IP of digital money. It succeeded. Now will just be the adoption curve of monetization, which takes a LONG time.

FenwickDTR

Scaling will be achieved through layers 2 like lightning network. It's like saying that you want to increase TCP maximum segment size (which is around 1.5kb). It makes no sense.

Corbimos

You don't understand open source protocols. Bitcoin is not doomed to fail. It is literally built for resilience. Bitcoin is a protocol just like TCP/IP. Would you say the internet is doomed to fail? It's isn't. Even if we get a new protocol that is better than TCP/IP, we'd still call that new system "The Internet". Bitcoin will work the same way. The only ones using shitcoins are speculators who day trade. If your company is a shotcoin casino, then I guess you would limit your customers. If it's not, you are just wasting your time and effort.

Digital_Scarcity

As cooked as it is, it is also necessary. It will always be that way. Bitcoin is an open protocol like TCP/IP, ethernet. Anyone can run it and build on top of it and interoperate with it. BTC base protocol has achieved all this and guaranteed security + scarcity, albiet not privacy. This is why coinjoins and future privacy tools are important to defend for accessible privacy options for BTC users. "CoinJoin is a trustless method for combining multiple Bitcoin payments from multiple spenders into a single transaction to make it more difficult for outside parties to determine which spender paid which recipient or recipients. Unlike many other privacy solutions, coinjoin transactions do not require a modification to the bitcoin protocol." - Bitcoin wiki

Alfador8

Bitcoin is a foundational protocol, like TCP/IP. When TCP/IP was invented in 1974 no one could have imagined http, email, could storage, or messaging apps. All of which are built on top of TCP/IP in a layered fashion. You don't use TCP/IP itself to send email, you use a protocol built on top of TCP/IP. We're already seeing signs of this type of development on top of Bitcoin with second layer protocols like chaumian ecash, Lightning and Liquid. And more applications will be built on top of *those* in the future.  Bitcoin's strength is in its simplicity. Leave the complexity for higher layers, like other successful computer protocols have done in the past.

vinniedamac

Money is pretty much used for everything as well. I saw a comparison that BTC is the TCP/IP of money.

JerryLeeDog

1. Bitcoin 2. Bitcoin 3. Bitcoin Its like asking what protocol you would use besides TCP/IP. Um, none. TCP/IP already won.

danielfd83

Central Governments are planing very tight controls over people’s money. Bank accounts are already constantly being frozen by some banks in Europe for deposits as small as 300€. (Revolut subreddit is full of people with frozen accounts). The President of the EU Central Bank has said that they are planing to make ilegal transactions of 1000€ outside of their banking system. The new Digital Euro & Dollar will just tighten the government control on money. All this big brother movements will push people towards Crypto. Bitcoin is the TCP IP of money. It is such a great invention that even governments are working on creating their own Centralized version.

VictorOgorodnov

Crypto enters cleansing era. Two misconceptions to overcome here: 1. Bitcoin is one and only forever, only 21 mil coins for 8 billion people, everything is a scam except Bitcoin, etc. Lies shilled by maxis to cash in their chips. You can literally create as much Bitcoin-like blockchains as you want, it’s all about adoption really. 2. Investing in tech is wrong idea. Tech was always free and will be, what people actually invest in is infrastructure and service. You don’t pay for TCP/IP, you pay for cables. Blockchains should be as simple as cables, and tech is being built upon.

0x0000001B

The TCP/IP of money? 😂 What does that even mean. Apples to oranges. 😂

Financial_Design_801

Bitcoin (the monetary layer) uses the communication layer (TCP/IP protocol) which came before it

TradeApe

But...it currently isn't the TCP/IP of money???

Qwahzi

Spam, QoS, fair queuing, & flow control are well understood computer science concepts. How do you think HTTP, SMTP, DNS, TCP/IP, and other internet protocols handle spam so well now (without fees), despite struggling in the early days of the internet? Nano is implementing the same things, it just takes time Fees don't solve the problem of an unusable network - Bitcoin just hit $100+ fees and multi-hour confirmations last week. Nano has almost always been faster and cheaper than that, even during a span attack Nano already has node incentives. It uses the same incentive model as Bitcoin full nodes (and almost every other internet protocol)

ammo_john

Let me ask you? How much do you value the discovery of digital scarcity? Because that is what Bitcoin is which no other copy of the chain can replicate (they can't attain escape velocity and full decentralisation, it's a miracle we got there with Bitcoin). So what does this digital scarcity give us? Well, it's the first time in human existence that we have a protocol for apolitical, uninflatable, uncensorable, and unconfiscatable transfer of digital scarcity. This has value because it fills a clear need, in times where money is being devalued, censored and confiscated, through human corruption. This is true everywhere, but even more acutely noticeable if you live in a country with a weaker currency and capital control. Because we now have true scarcity that can be settled online, we can build a whole more robust economy on top of it. So it's also a base layer of things to come (just like TCP/IP was for the internet). By the monetary properties it gives us, it's aiming for reserve currency of the world. So the value of Bitcoin is either zero or everything. This ultimate valuation of this asset is what leads to the volatility, people who buy and sell think it's either worth zero or everything, so volatility is to be expected. The volatility will come down over time, bitcoin will one day become the most boring asset there ever was, a reserve currency that is not only stable in price but that pegs the price of everything else, but this is most likely 25-50 years into the future. Enjoy the ride. Price is ultimately decided by buyers and sellers on the open market, betting on what the ultimate price of Bitcoin will be, zero or everything divided by 21.000.000.

JerryLeeDog

Why does that have to be people's reason to drop a pre-mined for insiders, centralized, POS shitcoin for the TCP/IP of digital assets and the hardest money on earth? That said, yeah I'd be shocked if ETH is every approved for an ETF. I'd be shocked if anything outside of Bitcoin even worth paying attention to is approved. It will be a sell the news event in any case

Spl00ky

I didn't realize TCP and UDP packets trade for $63k

sex6666666

If you think orange pilling people is hard, try to make them understand the TCP/IP protocol and you will see how much harder it is

combustioncat

TCP/IP truly is an amazing thing.

nerdiestnerdballer

TCP IP is the Internet protocol, Is the Internet being replaced or are we building on the Internet?

arcrad

Why do you think TCP/IP survived when others didn't? Might be some parallels.

ProfessionalCowbhoy

Hate to burst your bubble here but TCP/IP has been updated several times as it adapts to the ever changing network system. Bitcoin on the other hand and it's main user base are completely against this. They don't want it to move to a different consensus method for example they want it to remain proof of work even though that is terrible for the environment and energy prices and chips prices. They don't want to fork to a more efficient or faster chain that can handle more transactions even though that would ensure it's survival. I could go on for days

Vapourhands

Did they replace the TCP IP protocol yet?

loblaw-bob

The technological advancement would have to allow massive gains in utility to displace BTC. It can’t just be a little better (arguably many of those have already come and gone). It would have to be like 10-100x improvement and even then it may not take. Just image trying to introduce a new base protocol for the internet to usurp TCP/IP. Granted you could make a protocol for a special use case, but to display all TCP/IP means you need everyone to adopt it and all the layers riding on it to embrace the change. It’s a massive ask.

salinungatha

Books, hammers, bowls - just three technologies that haven't been "replaced". Oh you meant software? TCP/IP, HTTP, C, SQL Technology that's good enough tends to stick around

primekelseymichaels

"what's the point of TCP/IP if it's just going to get replaced?"

Lopsided_Life_6054

Same reason TCP/IP protocol and the internet hasn’t been replaced. BTC gave us digital scarcity just like the wheel gave us transportation.

jbe061

Look into how the internet works, and why nothing has replaced the protocols that it operates on. TCP/IP etc. Same idea

Get_the_nak

What’s stopping TCP/IP from being replaced?

Alfador8

Bitcoin is a protocol. Protocol's don't tend to be replaced easily because they benefit from and are subject to network effects. TCP/IP is still the standard even though it was invented in 1974. Bitcoin has already won the network effect battle among cryptos.  Today we have http, email, could storage, messaging apps. All built on top of TCP/IP. Like TCP/IP, Bitcoin will be the foundation for higher layer protocols. Bitcoin has irreproducible qualities. It launched perfectly fairly. Anyone with a computer could have mined bitcoin initially. But they didn't, because it launched with no monetary value attached to it. None of this is possible today. At least not without a centralized entity to market and develop it. And then you're competing with 10s of thousands of alt coins to have the second best network effects. The main threat to Bitcoin is the social layer. Bitcoin is vulnerable to broad user consensus. If everyone decides to run a compromised version of Bitcoin there isn't really a way to defend against that. That's a pretty small attack surface compared to any of its competitors.

No_Investigator3369

So I don't know exactly how to answer that besides starting to put numbers behind the $$$ side of it. But value is something different. Did any of us value Zelle or paypal and the ability to use Ebay when we were just using E-mail back in 1996? According to Statista, global revenues from internet services and advertising are expected to increase from $828 billion in 2023 to $1.05 trillion in 2027. In 2023, global retail e-commerce sales reached an estimated $5.8 trillion, and projections indicate a 39% growth over the coming years, with expectations to surpass $8 trillion by 2027. Personally, I think we'll start to see the marriage of traditional protocols like TCP/IP with blockchain technology. TCP/IP is not going anywhere but you are starting to see the infancy of this as there are a few whitepapers people have put together around these ideas with unfortunately BSV. It's only a matter of time before these ideas are re-introduced using the strongest blockchain protocol. To me, integrating blockchains with TCP/IP allows communications to have financial "skin in the game". At the moment, there's nothing stopping me from sending a shit ton of traffic to your routers to clog up https ports on your web server. And lets say my motive is not a DOS and to clog up your Web facing precense but to slip through a back door of the services you are using on your website. Again.....no cost to me to attempt to send a bunch of "if/then" statements to your "if/then defense box" to attempt to use logic to determine if my actions are nefarious. BSV / TCP/IP paper mentioned. https://www.bsvblockchain.org/news/ipv6-unlocks-the-true-power-of-the-bsv-blockchain Again....not an endorsement at all of BSV just an example of whats possible with blockchains and the protocols that run the internet today.

gumgum01

You need various layers, you can't store a coffee transaction on L1. It's the same concept for internet, you can't build Google without HTTP over TCP/IP over network over...

hurrrdurrr117

Damn. I've done as much research as I can. I'm extremely skeptical of other Crypto projects that aren't BTC. (Just less skeptical lol) If blockchain tech is going to be used widely there has to be a way to have all these different platforms/projects to interact with each other. TCP/IP or UDP are what we all use everyday when on our current version of the internet. Seeing Blackrocks interactivity with CL really has me chomping at the bit. Now that BTC has become somewhat accepted as a store of value with institutional money pouring in through ETF's. It feels like we are now only waiting on global acceptance/use case of these new networks. I'm interested if others here feel the same way or if I'm missing something. Where's the competition? Shouldn't there be other applications trying to step into this space??

hurrrdurrr117

Can someone explain to me CC/IP in relationship to TCP/IP? Is chainlink effectively just like tcp or even udp in that it's the protocol that allows different web apps to interact with each other. If so, wouldn't chainlink be involved in every transaction made over different blockchains? I'm a noob but that seems to me like a slam dunk. Does Chainlink even have any true competition?

0xIlmari

So much disinformation in this post, but this guy is correct. Transactions would be fine, if you can afford an extra up to 44 minutes of delay (22 to submit to Earth, then wait for it to be mined and 22 more to get the first confirmation). We might have to add a UDP-based version of the P2P protocol to Bitcoin, because TCP is not very tolerant of huge lag. Lightning Network should largely be fine. Two nodes on Mars, after opening a channel between them (which would involve Earth), would be able to transact instantly as long there is LAN/Intranet on Mars. Mining would have to stay on Earth, however. For mining efficiency, the network relies on a new block being distributed throughout the network within seconds. Rarely does a block take more than 44 minutes (longest round-trip for Mars), giving a Martian miner a chance (would have more chances when closer but still mostly a waste of energy).

Which-Occasion-9246

For me, Solana is like the UFP protocol vs. a TCP protocol which is expensive but less efficient.

JerryLeeDog

Bitcoin... and then a smaller revolving door of junk than there used to be, because more and more people will realize Bitcoin is already to TCP/IP

geppelle

I think we will even want no fees at all as we always see this: a crypto is expensive -> people move to a much cheaper one -> it gets some activity and becomes expensive too. With a feeless crypto, you know that this problem won’t come up. And it solves many questions about UX, dust, etc. It’s the way most of the internet works now: you don’t pay for your TCP requests as a user.

jony_be

long term value? Can't be devaluated. Gold can always be mined, houses can always be build, stock can always be issued, fiat can and will be devaluated. With bitcoin the only thing you need to do to build wealth is to save it. That's it. There's no need to be a wanna be self learn from the internet investor and risk your money. You buy it and you save it. There's alsothe other things like cant be confiscated, cant be censured, there's no third party risk etc etc etc. Thats value to people that live in opressing regimes and hyperinflated ones. >But what happens when a superior coin or a superior technology emerges, which it will, we can be sure of that. Would that not render bitcoin essential useless? This is like asking: What if a protocol better than TCP/IP emerges for the internet? What if a form of air transportation surpasses airplanes? What if an audio-visual transmission method superior to television appears? Do you see the point I’m trying to make? This convergence toward a superior technology that becomes a global standard is called a **Schelling point**. Bitcoin is the Schelling point of money.

rickandm00rty

While I don't disagree with the "forever" term, we can't reliably answer this question one way or the other. Computing power also applies to both the difficulty problem and mining hardware, meaning that theoretically the protocol will always keep up, including with quantum solutions. Transaction speed is purely a software problem and very promising solutions have been proposed recently with more on their way. I think of "Bitcoin" very similarly to the early internet protocols. Nothing has replaced TCP/IP but we have certainly improved upon it using software abstraction to increase its usefulness. The internet also won't last forever but it's next to impossible to predict it's replacement (not evolution) so I don't try. I tend to treat Bitcoins future the same way. This also doesn't invalidate other tokens or projects, but none of them address the deepest layers of the problem as sufficiently and fairly nor as robustly as Bitcoin and there is no reason the logic of those projects cannot be rolled into Bitcoins base layer where the value/truth is really stored.

Bhob13

My favorite way to look at this is the following: The internet is built on a base layer: TCP/IP. Then we built Email and the World Wide Web on top of that, then Ecommerce and streaming video on top of that. Then we added smartphones and apps to it. All of this over the last 30yrs. If you see BTC as TCP/IP then imagine what the next 30yrs will bring in world of decentralized finance. BTC is the springboard not the holdback.

Amber_Sam

Not really. The lightbulb got replaced multiple times, we're currently using LED. Bitcoin isn't just a coin. It's a protocol to build on, like the TCP/IP. That's why electricity, not a lightbulb.

Texas-NativeATX

Interesting question, but the answer might be that Satoshi had no deep understanding of stores of value and only wanted to solve the problem that they recognized. The developers of internet protocols TCP/IP never envisioned e-commerce, electronic banking, VOIP, etc. I do not think anyone would argue that we should go back to the original intent of the internet and kill all the advanced use cases.

Frozen555

People their view about how fast things go is so distorted imo, the internet as we know it today was invented around 1983, the TCP/IP protocol enabling the invention of the internet was invented in 1970. Why did it take 20+ years for the internet to take off? People need generations to adjust to new technology and usually only younger people really understand what the social and economic implications are. Look at even "AI" , the ideas around neural networks are 80 years old and only just now we have enough computation for the masses to interact with AI models directly.

Frozen555

We are the year 1999, the internet was invented around 1983. It's been 15 years and counting. This is 5 lifetimes in tech. The TCP/IP protocol is open sourced. If anyone could find anything useful with mass appeal, it would have been done by now.

Frogolocalypse

Bitcoin is a protocol. Like TCP/IP. Anything that's important will be added to it or built on top of it. It's like saying "what happens if someone comes up with a better method of counting?"

Skittles_the_Clown

I don’t really think Bitcoin will ever seem archaic. We will just build on top of it and make it adapt to the changing technology around it. At the end of the day Bitcoin is a protocol just like the internet (TCP/IP). We just continued to build application’s on top of it. We will do the same with Bitcoin.

Revolutionary-Ebb-26

Not true, it might be the case in the US and other places where the infrastructure makes one system synonymous with the other. They are probably being sent over long band cell towers hat aren't set up to transmit TCP/IP packets

godofleet

Eh, how can i put it... Fire was the first fire... You don't reinvent fire... sure maybe you can generate heat in ways other than combustion/flames but a flame is a flame. This idea that bitcoin is dominant simply because it was first is (IMO) misguided... Being first is a factor of course, but bitcoin's superior technology is the reason it has been adopted in ways copy-cats haven't. It's hard to logically see it any other way to me... Similar rings true of Email and TCP/IP ... these technologies were just that good that they stuck and their alternatives/competitors didn't **And above all, Bitcoin was NOT the first form of cryptographic money or internet-based money... many other attempts were made prior... It's just the first to do it properly.**

Hot_Collar_8910

Also the addresses of these seed nodes? They are hardcoded into the protocol. What happens if the standards of TCP/IPv4 gets deprecated and a new protocol comes around? Just fork it?

Ar0war

Bitcoin protocol is to money the same as TCP/IP is to internet. TCP/IP is not he same as decades ago and there are layers built over it, the same is going to happend with bitcoin.

HateActiveDirectory

The cyber kill chain was made by Lockheed Martin, the TCP/IP model was developed by the United States Defence Department

MikeDGorman

As someone who has worked within the IT industry since 1995 I believe I can offer some insight as to why you tend to encounter disbelief towards BTC from seemingly well qualified people. It has been my experience that information technology has attracted a certain type of person in previous times, the very literal minded, text book savvy types who value the more engineering aspects of networking, and devices, the thing is, 'Information' has an epistemological, and flexible quality, in reality human intelligence has an open ended, and variable tendency: what is considered absolutely true and profoundly unquestionable in one era, becomes an absurdity and blatantly untrue in a subsequent time. The 'consensus' empirical truth of the 15th Century gave way to quite a different paradigm of thinking in the 18th Century, right? The Sun was not the center of the universe, but to suggest it wasn't was heresy at one time. IT is very much a microcosm of our civilization, the "AI" developments and the derivation of artificial intelligence is now a solid reality, only 30 years ago this was science fiction only! The same applies to Bitcoin, this was regarded as being almost a technical spoof, a joke among network and data base engineers, as if Satoshi Nakamoto was a character in some Japanese cartoon. IT engineer types are very conservative people, the 2 men who invented TCP/IP, and later on Tim Berners-Lee who developed individual addressing for online documents (the World Wide Web) were also highly practical, engineering types. Bitcoin was too much of a science-fiction idea for these kinds of people, it took actual acceptance by the financial world to shift their minds.

kevinrb13

lol No. Bitcoin is a protocol. you are asking like our internet will be replace from TCP/IP protocol to another better protocol ? protocol can not be replaced once it comes to adoption as long as it is doing its thing.

Jacked_1

Cypress for example, amongst others. You say the legacy financial system has worked and offered such a big leap, yet managed to leave the majority of the world's countries either unbanked or highly indebted whilst stealing their natural resources. No sir, YOU'RE delusional - That illusion has done quite the work on your mind if you truly believe it's sustainable to any degree. Bitcoin was created precisely because an absolute centralised monetary policy corrupts absolutely. The traditional form of money would've potentially worked longer if the gold standard hadn't been dropped. Every single form of money has been debased, in the last millenium every 200 or so years, taking fiat off the gold standard likely just accelerated things. With the advent of the internet, the TCP/IP protocol stack would just be a prelude to a money protocol. Bitcoin, out of sheer necessity and as a voice to all those who've been wronged fit that slot nicely. Is it the answer? We'll see, but truth is, is does everything we need money to do, and what it doesn't do, it's developing. Programmable money might be something you're simply unable to comprehend in your current state of indoctrinated hive-mind. If you continue to have any sort of confidence in fiat, then you ought to check your financial privilege and really take a good hard look at the world around you, and especially beyond you and yours.

Revolutionary-Ebb-26

I see what you're saying but how many users of the internet can tell you how a TCP or UDP packet works ? Bitcoin in its current form will be the winning thing with longevity. That is what Michael Saylor has been going on about for the past couple years. This is what he's investing in. The usability of Bitcoin, utility, efficiency, interoperability, etc etc will take place on layers above Bitcoin like we already have seen with the advent of the lightning network and liquid chain and rootstock

JerryLeeDog

Shitcoins are called shitcoins for a reason. You can catch lightning in a bottle and SELL a shitcoin that will otherwise become worthless one day to increase you fiat position. Thats basically the purpose of them. Compared any shitcoin/BTC chart over years time and you'll notice on thing: they all bleed against bitcoin because it actually has the monetary principles and antifragile properties to make it the king. Whether people like it or not, Bitcoin is the TCP/IP of the protocol wars. It's already won

Ar0war

I know I mean I am positive this is going to infinite. Bitcoin is the protocol for money the same as TCP/IP is the protocol for the internet. It is going to change the world

mossyskeleton

It's going to take years for crypto technology to be distilled down into pragmatic concepts that actually make sense. First we have to establish a set of "winners" whose technology become the agreed upon protocols (in a technical sense) that everyone uses. Similar to TCP/IP or other networking protocols. Then layer on programming languages. Then layer on financial and game theory concepts. Then later on government regulations. etc. Crypto is incredibly difficult to communicate about. Hopefully the chaotic dust of jargon upon jargon will settle over time as the best protocols rise to the top, but it will always require expert communicators to teach the concepts.

Ar0war

Of course. This won't happend now. It will take decades for the common joe to see they need an alternative. It won't happend first either in Europe or USA - places with an "strong" currency. But it is inevitable every fiat will go down in value against bitcoin. Bitcoin is to money the same TCP/IP is to internet. Back then only people on the computer world would access the jnternet - now a kid 8 years old can get a tablet and go to YouTube and watch videos. It will be updates and the same as TCP/IP, bitcoin will be easy to access to anyone. Same as cold storage services. All of this will come if, and only if, bitcoin keep surviving. The reality is that this is either going to infinite, absorbing every currency in the world during the next centuries or is going to die. No in between. No forever 70k-100k during decades. It is either moon or literally nothing but a dream that didn't came true.

SmilingWithFear

Bitcoin is the protocol for money. The same as TCP/IP is the protocol for internet. TCP/IP is not the same as 20 years ago. The same as Bitcoin is no the same. It keeps evolving and being updated. The problem about the speed of transactions and its cost is solved via layer network, which is a layer on top of the chain. There is no second best. There can not be a second best. If there is something bitcoin can adopt because it is a good idea, miners will update to that as its been hapening all those years. Welcome to the rabbit hole.

bff_T_fishbine

Start thinking about bitcoin, not as a currency, but as a protocol. How do computers connect to the interwebs? Through TCP/IP (transmission control protocol/internet protocol) rules. It's nothing more than a framework that everyone agrees on to be able to talk to each other. Are there better ways? maybe. But it doesn't matter. This is what everyone is agreeing on. If you use a different protocol, it doesn't make you wrong, it just means you won't be able to talk to 99.9% of the internet. What makes bitcoin different is that it's a protocol for transferring value. And value needs a different set of rules than simple communication. As this is going to be a winner take all scenario and given BTC's market share it looks like the market is narrowing in on a single protocol. Bet against it, but understand why people pick btc over all the other options. Can a government make bitcoin illegal? Sure. But at what cost? It would be nearly impossible to enforce. And if bitcoin has no value, then why does every government seem to have a hard on to recreate it?

jaymeetee

If your analogy is the internet then BTC is TCP/IP which you are using to read this now

lazertazerx

>I'm not talking about encryption type security. im talking more along the lines of a 51% attack type thing. It's the same thing. Trying to hack Bitcoin you have only a few options, none of which are remotely feasible. 1. Brute-force generating keys until you find one that has a balance (nearly impossible) 2. Reverse engineering the private key from the public key (impossible as far as we know) 3. 51% attack With the current mind-bogglingly massive total hash rate of over *550 quintillion hashes per second*, this is also nearly impossible and completely foolish to even attempt, since those efforts would be much better allocated to buying BTC or miners anyways. 51% attacks and other network takeovers are only a concern for altcoins. ​ >because bitcoin can only do 600k transactions per day. Meaning you can only update \~600k wallets once per day. Even with lightning protocol that is an extremely bleak propsect and IMO a fatal flaw. I'm not too concerned with the specifics of lightning, because it's not the only possible scaling solution. I think there will be one or multiple layer-2s and layer-3s in the future, the same as how the internet protocol developed over time. Maybe lightning will be the equivalent of UDP, or maybe it will end up being TCP, if you know what I mean. Also keep in mind that not every end user has or will have a unique address on the base layer. For example, the ETFs are very popular and are attracting a lot of inflows since they were launched, and the ETF managers are certainly not making a new Bitcoin address for every single person who buys the ETF. Same thing with exchanges. Maybe there is a cryptographic way to do this too. Of course, ideally you'd stack early and have your own Bitcoin on the base layer, it's like buying Manhattan land in the 1800s. And how did Manhattan scale? Vertically.

JanPB

No. Bitcoin is like the TCP/IP.

JanPB

No. Bitcoin is like the TCP/IP.

kyleleblanc

Bitcoin is protocol, like HTTP, FTP, TCP/IP, etc.. You can’t ban Bitcoin, you can only ban yourself from Bitcoin.

JerryLeeDog

Silly question. BTC is already the TCP/IP of the protocol wars The sooner people accept this the better off they will be financially

dandoii

See my other response and continue there, it doesn't have to be a single node. They are spinning up a network of nodes, but we could do peer to peer relaying of contract states. I could set up a node now that uses RPC, TCP it doesn't matter.

dandoii

So it's a multi step basis. Step 1, you construct the tx with the correct hash and broadcast it to chain. Step 2, you send your payload to either the participants you wish to notify, or a known host. Currently, the host uses an HTTP call, but I could WhatsApp you the payload and you could add it to your contract state manually. I don't really see how HTTP calls are relevant, it's just a means of communicating data. You could set up your own node and use TCP, anything?

equity_zuboshi

People can put their money where ever they want. Shitcoin scammers are kind of tragic though, of course we feel bad for people fleeced by such obvious scams. Shitcoiners are selling the IPX/SPX of digital money. Sure, some of the people pushing that tech were dumb enough to truly believe in it, just like some altcoiners are today. Those with common sense saw the writing on the wall quite early, and knew the TCP/IP was inevitable. They knew netware pushing an alternative was basically stealing money from schools and charities and small businesses. Same kind of tragedy.

jilinlii

Phones and laptops are complex devices with a surprising number of ways for seed exfiltration to occur. It's not just keyloggers that send data over TCP/IP (although that is a common way for seed phrases to be stolen). Reputable, open source hard wallets, by comparison, are specialized devices that are specifically hardened to prevent the seed / keys from ever leaving the device. This is why it's risky to type your seed into a phone or computer, and why it's relatively quite safe to input it directly into a hardware wallet. For someone with a trivial amount of Bitcoin, maybe it doesn't matter. For someone with a substantial amount of their net worth in Bitcoin, it's important to do this right.

SmilingWithFear

Nothing can replicate how Bitcoin was born. Aside from that, if there is a technology that Bitcoin can use, it will be an updated. The network is not what it was 14 years ago, it has been updated and it will keep being that way forever. Think on it like TCP/IP. It is a protocol. Same with Bitcoin, it is a protocol for money. It will keep improving (see lightning, SegWit, etc...)

Itslittlealexhorn

>Bitcoin is a protocol, not a company or a product. These analogies don't apply. What's replaced TCP/IP? I'm seeing both of those statements a lot recently. Where did you get that from? Both the "Bitcoin is a protocol" line and the comparison to TCP/IP.

inShambles3749

You shouldn't compare protocols to companies. A better comparison would be against http/TCP/IP. And they're still used pretty heavily and will continue to be used.

Objective_Digit

Bitcoin is a protocol, not a company or a product. These analogies don't apply. What's replaced TCP/IP?

Initial-Gas-1434

The reasons for the persistence of TCP/IP and considerations about its future, including parallels to the Bitcoin network, involve a mix of technological, economic, and social factors. Here’s an overview: ### Why TCP/IP Hasn’t Been Replaced 1. **Ubiquity and Standardization**: TCP/IP is the backbone of the internet, deeply integrated into almost all digital communication systems. Its widespread adoption has led to a significant amount of infrastructure built around these protocols, making any replacement costly and complex. 2. **Scalability and Robustness**: Despite its age, TCP/IP has proven to be incredibly robust and scalable. It has been able to support the growth of the internet from a few interconnected computers to billions of devices today. 3. **Continuous Improvement**: Rather than replacing TCP/IP, the approach has been to improve and build upon it. Technologies like IPv6, for instance, address some of the limitations of the original protocols, such as the exhaustion of IP addresses. 4. **Interoperability**: The global nature of the internet requires a common set of protocols that all devices can understand. TCP/IP provides this universal language. Introducing a new protocol would require global consensus, a challenging feat. 5. **Legacy Systems and Compatibility**: The internet is full of legacy systems that rely on TCP/IP. Ensuring compatibility between old and new systems is a significant challenge that any replacement protocol would face. ### Parallel with Bitcoin Network - **Innovation vs. Replacement**: Just like TCP/IP, the Bitcoin network has seen proposals for improvements rather than outright replacement. Technologies like the Lightning Network aim to address some of Bitcoin’s scalability issues without replacing the underlying blockchain technology. - **Decentralization and Adoption**: Both TCP/IP and Bitcoin benefit from widespread, decentralized adoption. This makes any fundamental change difficult, as it requires broad consensus within a diverse and dispersed community. - **Future Needs and Technologies**: Just as TCP/IP might eventually evolve or be supplemented by new technologies to meet future internet needs, the Bitcoin network or its underlying blockchain technology could also evolve. However, the principles of decentralization and cryptographic security are likely to remain central, much like how the principles of packet switching and end-to-end connectivity have persisted in TCP/IP. ### Looking Ahead: 50-100 Years In the long term, both TCP/IP and the Bitcoin network may see significant evolution or even replacement as technological needs and capabilities change. Quantum computing, for example, could pose challenges to current cryptographic standards, necessitating new protocols for security in both the internet and blockchain technologies. Similarly, advancements in network technology could lead to more efficient, secure, and scalable alternatives to TCP/IP. However, the transition to any new technology would be gradual, involving layered improvements and backward compatibility, rather than an abrupt switch. The key factors in any such transition would be the clear advantages of new technologies over the old, the ability to integrate with existing infrastructure, and the consensus among stakeholders. In summary, the reason TCP/IP hasn't been replaced is due to its widespread adoption, robustness, and the continuous improvements made to work within its framework. Similarly, while technologies like the Bitcoin network may face challenges that require significant evolution, the path forward is likely to involve iterative improvements rather than outright replacement.

looneytones8

When was the last time we replaced TCP/IP?

BitcoinBaller420

I’ll try. Apologies that this will surely either be too fast or too slow for you.  There’s a lot to it it’s difficult to know what to cut.  On the internet, computers talk to each via a protocol. For web traffic like this Reddit page you’re reading, they use the TCP/IP protocol.  That’s how computers express to each other the desires of their users, and how those desires are fulfilled.  Bitcoin is similar. It’s a protocol allowing computers to engage with each other under a specific set of rules. The rules are, if you solve a sufficiently complex math problem whose only known solution is brute force, you are paid newly minted bitcoin for doing so.   It’s an open offer to trade energy for bitcoin.  Any computer in the world may fight to accept this trade.  Who cares?  Why does anybody bother to spend energy and commit compute cycles to win worthless bitcoin?  Well it’s a somewhat complicated story, but the short answer is that people saw the promise of what these Bitcoin units might be used for, and anticipated that it might one day sell for $50k or even higher the way it does today.  So they demonstrated their belief in the value of Bitcoin by trading their resources for it. And this is how it’s gone ever since. More people believe in the value of this decentralized unit of measure, the price goes up, the puzzles get harder, it gets more expensive to mine, etc.  The point of the puzzles is twofold. It controls the pace at which new bitcoin are released, and it’s important to maintain the security of this decentralized network.  The reasons for this are a bit too technical for a quick introduction, but the Bitcoin white paper describes it well and can lead you further.  There’s a lot more to say but space and time are limited so I hope this helps. Good luck to you. 🍀👍

SmilingWithFear

I told my father that Bitcoin is the protocol for the money the same as TCP/IP is the protocol for bitcoin. It seems that analogy went quite well since he repeated it to my uncle during christmas dinner

mrbluesneeze

Bitcoin is a protocol. It is not a apps, service or platforms​. Protocols becomes move slow and become standards that allow apps, service or platforms to move fast. It has been 50 years since TCP/IP protocol was adopted into Arpanet as the standard for robust communication. There is no plan to replace TCP/IP 50 years later. Instead we build layers on top of it like HTTP that is ensentially a framework to scale TCP/IP that enabled the world wide web. Bitcoin has become the standard protocol for value transfer, it has been in production for 15 years and when it comes to protocols it is. We are building on top of Bitcoin today to scale it with lightning and other protocols. There was never really any competition for Bitcoin as the value transfer protocol. The largest contention was an internal war called the blocksize war that resulted in Bitcoin prioritizing decentralization. This was a huge victory as just like TCP/IP HAS to prioritize robustness above speed to remain useful Bitcoin MUST prioritize decentralization. Many of these have been updated over time but none of them have real replacements. FTP : 53 years old​ TCP/IP : 50 years old​ UDP : 44 years old​ SMTP : 44 years old​ DNS : 41 years old​ IMAP : 38 years old​ HTTP : 33 years old​ DHCP : 31 years old​ BitTorrent : 23 years old​ Bitcoin : 15 years old​ To understand this important point you raised you will need to study the difference between apps, service or platforms​ and protocols.

zzx101

My TCP/IP hates Trump

wkw3

Agreed. Bitcoin is for your enemies. Bitcoin does not have any more political leaning than TCP/IP.

Average-Terrestrial

- 1973: Cerf and Kahn, "A Protocol for Packet Network Intercommunication" – TCP/IP - 1976: Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman, "New Directions in Cryptography" - 1978: RSA Public-key Cryptosystems - 1980: Ralph Merkle, "Protocols for public key cryptosystems" - 1981: David Chaum, "Untraceable Electronic Mail, Return Addresses, and Digital Pseudonyms" - 1982: Murray Rothbard, "The Ethics of Liberty" - 1983: David Chaum, "Blind Signatures for Untraceable Payments" - 1985: Elliptic Curve Cryptography - 1988: Timothy C. May, "The Crypto-Anarchist’s Manifesto" - 1989: David Chaum, Founded DigiCash - 1991: - Phil Zimmerman, Pretty Good Privacy – PGP - S. Haber, W.S. Stornetta, "How to time-stamp a digital document" - 1992: - Cypherpunks founded in SF by Eric Hughes, Timothy C. May and John Gilmore - Tim Berners-Lee, World Wide Web - 1993: Eric Hughes, "A Cypherpunk's Manifesto" - 1994: - Timothy C. May, "The Cyphernomicon" - CyberCash - E-gold - NSA, "How To Make a Mint" - 1997: - Adam Back, HashCash, DOS counter-measure w/ proof-of-work - Nick Szabo, "Formalizing and Securing Relationships on Public Networks" – Smart Contracts, Third part vulnerabilities - 1998: - Nick Szabo, "Securing Property Titles with Owner Authority" – Timestamped database - Wei Dai, "B-money" – decentralized database to record txs and using a type of proof-of-work - Bit Gold - 2001: - Bram Cohen, Bittorrent - Distributed Hash Tables - Video game currencies and markets (era started in 2001) - demand - 2004: Liberty Reserve - 2006: Hal Finney, "Reusable Proof-of-Work" - 2008: - Lehman Bankruptcy (Sep 15, 2008) - Satoshi Nakamoto, "Bitcoin: A Peer-to-peer Electronic Cash System" (Oct 31, 2008) - Bitcoin launched, "Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" (Jan 3, 2009) The timeline presents a history of technological and ideological developments that led to the creation of Bitcoin, demonstrating it as the

NobodyImportant5895

Hopefully, at some point BTC will just be too big to ignore and people will use it, without understanding it. Just like the internet, the majority doesn't understand TCP/IP, DNS or HTTPS. Yet, it's widely used. I haven't seen surveys about BTC in the country I live but I know that many don't care much about BTC.

Hitchie_Rawtin

Protocol. Y'know the way TCP/IP doesn't stand for Transmission Control Puter/Internet Posse? Same thing.

Squezeplay

It has nothing to do with "CREATE2" lol. These idiots have no idea what they're talking about. Its like saying "TCP" or the internet got exploited because it was just some random protocol or api call that was used.

Uberhipster

he specifically talks about NON NATIONALIZED, bank-issued promissory-note-backed-by-BTC equivalents so brand X would have X-bucks, brand Y would have Y-dinarii and they would back them to varying degrees of BTC with internal policies as to how many notes are issued that cover the banks' individual asset value people (aka "The Market") would then identify which promissory notes exchange at which rate to which other promissory notes and then trade with those at the spot-rate or whatever rate is negotiated prices the banks could do this in theory today with gold but the problem is that all the gold reserves are behind lock and key and all the banks have to conform to the central bank(s) which regulate how they are allowed to operate (in the case of US Federal Reserve it's 100% fractional reserve denominated in US treasury notes) in the BTC bank world there is no government regulation the mechanisms to swap wallet to wallet on the lightning network "level" - as Hal refers to it or 'layer' as we call it - already exist basically every BTC bank will need their own network layer ... brand? so just as lightning tokens will be interchangeable on an exchange with another token-issuing network so that token-issuing network's token will be interchangeable with the lightning network - as long as they are both running their protocols on top of the Bitcoin Network Protocol ie lightning network protocol "runs on top of" BNP the same way HTTP(S) runs on top of TCP/IP the exchange market for these tokens is automatically convertible vis-a-vis BTC network facilitating settlement of all exchange contracts negotiated and enumerated in BTC value an offer to give 3 LNP tokens in exchange for 2 other network tokens at a volume of 300k can be taken by whoever is willing to sell 200k (other)NP tokens for 300k LNPs can make the sale and they will settle in BTC as soon as network validates the transaction on the blockchain then both seller and buyer go their separate ways as holders of LNP 300k and (other)NP 200k respectively, and can use those tokens on the respective networks and whatever merchants accept payments in those currencies - presumably merchant POS systems integrated with their own LNP and/or (other)NP accounts which, in turn, reflect payments the way they do right now on the lightning network the bank is then reverted to it's traditional role of holding accounts of merchants and holders safely and accurately in exchange for fees (paid in backing currency - ie BTC) in terms of other services that modern, multinational conglomerate banks offer (things like loans and investments or insurance) - institutions like credit unions, insurers and brokerage firms can perform those functions and utilize the bank account control systems network to those ends the network provider can create their own and prohibit or invite whomever is willing to do business with their network on their terms and with whatever their valuation the valuation of each token is then unregulated by gov or para-state banks - it is simply each person preferring their payment system based on price, value and value-added factors (eg like affiliated or independent credit unions offering loan terms in different network denominations - that's one obvious business case that will drive demand) driving the spot price up or down at whatever volume the systems permit based on individual network rules and constraints is something that is now open to price discovery

Abundance144

L2 and following L3 are natural developments. It's like asking why anyone would want anything built on top of TCP/IP. It's increased functionality, near unlimited developer creativity, and expansion of the network; all at no cost to the base Bitcoin network.

quantum_explorer08

How is the TCP IP internet protocol still relevant today?