VXUS

Embarrassed_Time_146

Don’t give the money to someone else to manage. They’ll underperform the market and charge you for it. It doesn’t matter if they’ve outperformed in the past, that’s just luck. Don’t pick stocks, day trade or follow advice that promises you some magical and easy return. That’s gambling. There’s no free lunch. Invest in index funds, in a diversified portfolio. The best options are probably sone mix of the US and Global Market (VTI/VXUS or VT, for example). Be prepared for losing money through what feels infinite periods of time. Be prepared for one or all of your investments underperforming what somebody else has. Stick the course through it all. Specially don’t sell every time you lose money to buy whatever is hot at the moment. Don’t invest in specific sectors of the economy (tech, semiconductors, energy) even if you think they are the future. What you know everybody knows. That means that the price of what you buy already reflects your expectations about it. Don’t choose your funds based on backtests or their past performance in the last 5 or 10 years. Choosing recent winner is a sure way of buying shares at a high price which gives low expected returns in the future. Think about retirement, it may feel far away, but if you start preparing for ir now it’ll be easier. Keep an emergency fund: if you’re single keep at least 3 months of essential expenses in cash (in a high yield savings account). Finally, manage your expectations. In 8 years, even if you invested all of the 25k the right way and you got really lucky, you’ll probably only have double that amount (not accounting for inflation).

MotoTrojan

Most equity ETFs will be able to use the create-redeem process to wash away any capital-gains from their internal sales as well, so not only will you get the same tax-efficiency as holding individual stocks, but you'll get low cost diversification too! No reason to hold anything but an ETF. VTI and VXUS will give you global cap-weighted exposure (VT is global but not great in taxable as you won't get the foreign tax credit). If you want to increase expected returns you could tilt to size/value/profitability. Could even buy a 1 fund solution like AVGE which is 70% US and 30% ex-US. Lots of options, but certainly pick an equity ETF over stock-picking.

Link-07

Long Term Investment in ROTH IRA. 27M just need some opinion on this long term portfolio in ROTH IRA. VTI - 70% VXUS - 10% SCHD - 10% VNQ - 10% What do you guys think about this portfolio?

AP9384629344432

Recent moves / thoughts: - Yesterday completely sold out of CVS, added a little BTU as it dipped into the 21s (which is a bit silly). Dropped a big chunk into VTI/VXUS as usual. - Today added bit more HCC. For what it worth, I 'only' have about 5% of my total portfolio in coal (3 companies). I think the largest I ever had was maybe 7-8%? I'm actually pretty risk averse when it comes to concentrated positions in individual stocks. And how much I mention a stock on Reddit doesn't necessarily correlate well to how big my positions are... Granted if HCC becomes very cheap, I will sell out of some existing positions to move funds there. - Very strong day for small cap value - UI: anticipating one more bad earnings print and then I'm quite happy - TSLA forward P/E now up to 80 as earnings estimates come down... Earnings season sucks sometimes because it's so unpredictable. You can do all the DD you want but ultimately you have to just guess if a company is thriving or not. After the fact you can come up with all sorts of post-hoc rationalizations, but many of those reasonings applied in previous quarters too when the earnings were great. E.g., consumer is tapped out is something I have heard since early 2022... it's now mid 2024. So that excuse for some of the fast food companies didn't really work until recently (and still hasn't, e.g., for Chipotle). ## CVS Yesterday had sold completely out of CVS. The more I read about why the numbers are so bad, the more I think the company may just be uninvestible. The bull case about CVS is its non-retail segments (retail is and always will be a disaster long term--see WBA, RiteAid, et al). The 70B - 80B Medicare Advantage business was supposed to be a major cash cow in the future for the company. Instead, the medical benefits ratio is skyrocketing, from 85% to over 90%. (Meaning 90% of the revenue from premiums is going toward healthcare costs). The federal government's CMS (who sets the premium rates for these MA plans) pays CVS for administrating the plans, and is now refusing to raise rates. So the MA business is stuck being unprofitable (-3 to -4% margins) for the near future. Oak Street/Signify are likely still loss-producing. Don't care if the company has a near term bounce or if the CMS suddenly becomes extra generous or something. Right now, based on the data I have, this is a low quality company and I don't want my money sitting there. (The dividend payouts were pretty chunky though)

Janus67

Index funds outside of bonds due to the dividends/income. I like VTSAX and VTIAX (VTI and VXUS as ETF) to get the foreign tax credit

GiraffeAs_

VXUS: *up 1.3%* my company’s 401k international equity fund: *down .3%* 

Bort426

What do you mean, this whole post is about paying interest on a loan, how could I be forgetting that? I mention it multiple times. So then the answer is all cash loans are going to cost somewhere around 10% or higher, regardless of credit? I've never borrowed a bunch of cash I don't know. Not planning on doing it, this is hypothetical. I never said anything about reliably. I meant on average with index funds like VT or VTI/VXUS over the long haul. I'm talking about getting the average 10% out of the market, which doesn't include inflation—7% with. So the answer to your last question is because it's not reliable.

Dougnifico

I dumped VXUS for VEA and EMXC on moral grounds. Turns out that has so far been a winning decision.

BigBoobsAreDahhBest

If you want aggressive growth, you don’t want bonds. Don’t listen to these Bogglehead addicts all the time. I agree that you shouldn’t time the markets or bet on a specific industry to make your rich, but you should and can def risk some money to bet on growth industries that you’re familiar with (don’t be dumb about it though and get addicted to gambling in it). I personally do 75% VTI and 25% SCHG in my taxable accounts and 90% VTI / 10% VXUS in my retirement accounts. I would leave your money in the target date fund, but your new Money invest elsewhere for sure. Just an opinion btw, not some financial advice.

Alarmed_Reporter_642

Unfortunately I was only 11 when Google has their IPO. I could see Apple bouncing back when everyone wanted an iPod but still too young. I would have 100% bought because even someone with half a brain knew they were the future. It’s much harder to predict the future in 2024 because we are at a saturation point. AI still doesn’t have the ecosystem, and revenue models to make it work and reminds me of the tech bubble in the 90s for the same reasons. I’m not a fan of diversification because like Charlie Munger says it gives you mental peace but not strong returns. I’m betting on winning horses, and it will pay off. But even then I have a safety margin because I’m not greedy. I have an exit point, and I’m not ignoring index funds either. There’s no point in investing in underperforming companies for diversification sake. I made that mistake when I bought nearly every sector etf. Huge opportunity cost when you waste your money in garbage like VXUS. But I appreciate your advice. I’m still a Voo and chill guy with growth on the side. Being an amateur and matching Voo is a huge accomplishment given the learning curve.

secret_configuration

Same. I would DCA into VTI/VXUS, I DCA in monthly with an 80/20 split. Putting in half as lump sum and the DCA the rest is also a good strategy. I know that everyone here automatically tells you to just lump sum it all but I wonder how many were in a position where they had 500K+ to put into the market and just dumped it all in. Easy to say.

rinsyankaihou

I'm in a similar position to you and I just do DCA via autotransfer into VTI/VXUS every week. Real estate investing never really appealed to me, seemed like just a huge pain to manage and having to worry about vacancies or things breaking seems annoying.

junger128

Do what you like but I’d recommend 20% - 40% in VXUS, 0% - 10% in bonds and dump the rest in VTI or VOO.

domdip

That's a fun way to get a tour! Not beating VOO but not trying - prefer global exposure. S&P 500 direct indexing for tax loss harvesting, VXF for the rest of the US, VXUS for international. One of these decades international will win again...

MotoTrojan

Fair enough. There are older factor funds like those from DFA if that makes you more comfortable. At a minimum I would swap VOO for VTI, and add some VXUS. Personally I think the factors are helpful, but that gets you a bit better off. 100% VOO is just pure recency bias and poor planning.

FxHorizonTrading

You will only hear "lump sum it!" On reddit.. I say, DCA it.. maybe put in half and DCA the rest over 12months.. Also, I would honestly look to get VXUS on the side instead of going 100% VOO Maybe 20% into VXUS so you have non-US exposure as well

AICHEngineer

If you invest in 100% equities, globally diversified, like VTI + VXUS 80/20 or 60/40, something like that, and assume a *conservative* 7% nominal return and 3% inflation, you'll get to roughly 1 million if you're making 1k contributions a month until retirement age at 67. Add in social security, and you're getting 40k a year withdrawn from that portfolio at a safe withdrawal rate of 4% plus social security benefit, so you'd be comfortable in retirement. This is just a baseline. There's lots of routes to take. Factor tilting, maybe some leverage for time diversification, etc. Invest in yourself for more labor income. Etc.

Mulch_the_IT_noob

If you allocate 1/3 to large caps, 1/3 to mid, and 1/3 to small, then you have more exposure to the size premium. However, many argue size is not an independent risk factor, and instead just magnifies other factors like value. Small value has historically beaten large value. Small growth has performed worse than large growth. Ultimately, the overall size premium has ended up being pretty close to zero. So if you allocate evenly across size classes, your expected returns are not that different from market cap weight funds (VT, VTI) Same thing if you allocate across value, core, and growth. Typical market cap weight portfolios already just throw them all together. The main thing splitting up across these styles does is that it reduces risk to individual stocks. If you're invested in VTI, then a few large US companies affect your portfolio a lot. If you could in theory own an equal amount of all 3500 companies in VTI though, then you spread your portfolio risk more evenly across them. Whether that's a good or bad thing is debatable. Most proponents of factor investing would recommend starting with a market cap weight portfolio, and adding a value tilt and/or a size+value tilt. This typically involves putting 50-90% in a mix of market cap weight equities and bonds - so take your pick of VT, VTI + VXUS, Asset Allocation Fund, or a Target Date Fund. Then add 10-50% factor tilt. The [Ben Felix Portfolio ](https://www.optimizedportfolio.com/ben-felix-model-portfolio/#the-ben-felix-model-portfolio-asset-allocation)is a popular version of this. [Paul Merriman's Ultimate Buy and Hold Portfolio](https://www.optimizedportfolio.com/ultimate-buy-and-hold-portfolio/#paul-merriman-ultimate-buy-and-hold-portfolio-asset-allocation) also utilizes factor tilts.

LevelPsychological64

Everyone has their own strategy. So long as youre investing in low cost broad market funds you’re gonna do fine. Assuming you’re young, you should have 20-40% international (VXUS), 0-10% bonds (BND), and the rest domestic (VTI). You can also just go full total market (VT) and chill. Some people say don’t bother with bonds if you’re 20+ years off from retirement, but you have to have the mental fortitude to keep investing during the inevitable down market. If losing 50% of your net worth would cause you to panic and make the mistake of pulling out, then add some bonds for some stability. If you’re 40+, then you should have some allocated to bonds in case the market shits the bed right before you retire.

MotoTrojan

If it made sense to DCA with a new $1M in cash I handed you, it would also make sense to take a 30 year old 401k that is $1M and mostly made up of gains, move it to money market (no taxes due) and re-DCA it. Nobody does that... DCA is an emotional crutch, nothing more. Invest as much as you can, as soon as you can. 75/25 VTI/VXUS is an alright portfolio but I would personally just buy AVGE. It will be 70/30 US/ex-US, but also come with modest tilts to value, size, and profitability factors (increasing expected returns and diversification) and due to ETF-of-ETF structure, give you tax-free hands-free rebalancing.

RunningFromYou88

OP, you should have more than 31k in your Roth IRA if you started at age 18. If you’re Age 22c that means you put in 6.5k every year for 5 years which is only 32.5k. At an annual growth rate of 7% you should have at least 45k by now which tells me you didn’t invest into an ETF or Target Date Fund. Do not just let that money sit there because it won’t grow at all. Invest it into a ETF like a target date fund or VTI/VOO + VXUS to maximize the growth.

ThinkBig247

Do 70% VTI, 20% VXUS, & 10% IBIT (Bitcoin)... Lump sum all at once, then continue to add $500 of your income (or whatever is in your budget) every week, set it to recurring, set and forget.

kckq-cashapp

Take 5k for trading, put into another account. Take the other 170k+, and put it into VTI/VXUS.

grepje

Yeah, I would say investing in a non-hedged fund that’s traded here in the US would be the easiest option. For stocks you also have VGK, which is like VXUS but just for Europe. Haven’t invested in this personally, I’ve just done VXUS so far as well. I haven’t been able to find a non-hedged EU bond fund, but would be interested in one.

No-Comfortable9123

Came here to say this and happy it was already said. I’m bearish over the near term, but Daddy Buffet is right. The United States economy as a whole has just grown steadily overtime. Which is why VT has not just matched, but outperformed SPY. Real GDP grew across board, not just the top 500 companies. If you invested all your money a day before the stock market crash of 1929 you broke even in the 1950s. The real question is if the United States will be the center of the economic world one hundred years from now. But most people don’t give a shit about that and just need 40 years of steady growth. But if you’re real worried you can still get exposure in world indices like VXUS.

Dstrongest

You make a lot of really good points . And like you point out for many investors it’s the best choice. And I’m Not trying to dissuade anyone . as I’m 94% invested in the US market and most of that is vti which is basically the S&P500. I see a lot of people here recommend VXUS to go with VTI, and then some bonds sprinkled in . , I’m tying to point out from the perspective of a person from that other country, and when the shit hits the fan, it can be a while before we get whole again . I did make the mistake of lumping the 2000 crash with the 2008 crash , which where entirely different causes and before 08 we had just reached the old high . Before getting a new lower bottom.

BigBoobsAreDahhBest

That ROTH IRA is hell lol. Your retirement should be simple: 90% VTI / 10% VXUS for example. Your brokerage account should have the individual stocks (ONLY if you actually believe in those stocks). Otherwise stick to the same VTI/VXUS combo or VTI/SCHG if you want a tilt on US and growth.

AP9384629344432

VOO (S&P 500) pays a dividend of 1.35%, VUG (S&P 500 growth) pays 0.55%, so your yield is somewhere in between that. It's actually on the low end. I plug my portfolio(s) into TrackYourDividends and my yield is 2.13% (2.4% yield on cost). Thanks to holdings in VXUS, AVDV (both international ETFs), cash in brokerage, my Target Retirement Fund (which has 10% bonds), and a few dividend payers like SBUX, XOM, JPM, LOW, etc.

Hour_Worldliness_824

You need to consider extra long timelines- like 30+ years. A LOT can happen in 30 years. Further, your job is tied to the US so if the US economy goes to shit and all you're investments are here, you are FUCKED in retirement. It's better to have some international, like VXUS, even if you get lower returns overall, just in the small chance the US completely goes to shit.

SwordOfVarjo

70 percent VTI, 30 percent VXUS. Then forget about it.

Equivalent-Pin-7146

Yes, just consolidate into VTI. Keep buying VTI with all available free cash flow up to the max limit each year. Add some VXUS if you want international diversification. Done.

LouayMustafa

Should I sell my Roth IRA stock? So here’s the dilemma, I have about 14k in my Roth IRA (after contributing for 2023 right at the tax deadline) I have yet to invest the my most recent contribution, so that leaves me with $6600 cash (from my 2023 contribution and last years dividend returns) and about 7400 from my original contribution (2022 $6000) which is split up between $6100 in VTI, and 1$300 in VXUS This leads to my question, since I am thinking to wait to invest my cash for VTI and VXUS to drop again (mainly VTI because it is relatively high compared to its history) should I also sell my current VTI and VXUS and re invest all at once? Lastly, I am still yet to contribute for this year (2024) and I am 20 years old, so I am wondering since of course VTI and VXUS are not going to consistently be up every year for the next 40 years of my life, I think it’s a good idea to sell and buy it all back when it drops again, but since I am a noob, I don’t really know if selling my very first investment defeats the purpose of “compound interest” like does keeping an investment for 40 straight years have a benefit vs if I try to sell and time the market, which I know timing the market is looked down upon, but in this situation, since I’m not taking money out for another 40 years, I feel it is quite obvious to say that the stock will obviously drop multiple times, and I think we can all agree it is on the rise since I lost bought it (about 24 VTI at $249) (about 24 VXUS at $59) I’m sure I missed important info so please feel free to ask for more info, and please answer very detailed! Thank you all!

Cruian

If you own VTI + VXUS or just VT, you already hold at least 80% of VNQ + VNQI already, at market cap weight. Adding VNQ + VNQI would be going overweight compared to (free float) market cap weight on REITs.

Sir_Clicks_a_Lot

In terms of diversification there is a huge gap. IHDG has just 259 holdings, and the top 10 are all at least 2% of the total. In contrast, VXUS has 8627 holdings; none of them are more than 2% and only 3 of them are even above 1% of the total. So, if diversification is an important consideration, these two funds don’t really belong in the same conversation. Expense ratio is obviously another big factor. VXUS is low at .08% while IHDG is significantly more expensive at .58%. That’s an important consideration for a lot of people here who believe that past returns won’t guarantee future results, so the focus should be on what we can control and expense ratio is one of the few things we really know.

FinndBors

“Wrong” is a strong word. To be “safe” you do want to avoid putting 100% of your money in one country because there are always country-specific risks. VOO is S&P 500 and while US centric, most of the companies are multinational in both employees and customers, so it isn’t too bad. I think bogleheads suggest a 60/40 split which is what VT does. I personally do a 80/20 split of VTI/VXUS. 

BigBoobsAreDahhBest

Here’s what I do: Taxable: - ETF’s: 85% VTI and 15% SCHG (pump 100% of my paycheck into these two ETF’s every 2 weeks. Make sure you have a good emergency fund and no debt before doing this). - Stocks: AAPL, MSFT, GOOG, NVDA, AMAT, and COST (bought over 10 years ago, only added in 2020 and haven’t touched since). Retirement (401K and HSA): - 90% VTI and 10% VXUS

JeffB1517

IHDG has a few differences: 1. It hedges currencies 2. Momentum screens. 3. Growth screen (high earnings growth) 3. Profitability factor (high ROA, ROE) and forward dividends Quality / momentum is designed to complement value funds. The idea is by taking a 50/50 position you get the advantages of both and thus outperform the index. This is fine to use but it is not designed to be used alone. You should be holding an international value fund along with it. This is hedged so you want to be using a hedged value fund to complement it. VXUS is designed to be used alone. It also doesn't hedge. Hedging was obviously better looking backward: https://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/currency . That being said for Americans I don't like hedging. Generally you want to diversify away your own country's currency risk. Your job is in USD, your house (if you own) is in USD and your retirement is in USD. You want inflation protection that unhedged international provides. Hedging makes sense to reduce short-term volatility, if you intend to move abroad or if you are holding a lot of international (above 55%). Growth had outperformed value. Though international growth not by as much. That being said I strongly support quality/momentum and value paired instead of cap weighting.

Key-Mark4536

Neither of these is a knock on IHDG, I don’t really know that one, but there are basically two reasons VXUS is the default:   1. The sub has a Vanguard bias, explained in the FAQ. One could just as easily say SWISX or EFA, but Vanguard tickers have become the shorthand.  2. Passively managed funds tend to be cheaper and simpler, and most investors would benefit from that. There’s no need to monitor performance or worry about a change in fund management.  That being said, the sub will occasionally acknowledge an actively managed fund that seems to be performing well, such as AVUV (small-cap value). 

scientropic

VXUS is an index fund that basically owns all the stocks in the world except for the US. It’s a popular recommendation for US investors that know what they want in the US but not elsewhere. It’s a simple way to add global balance to an otherwise US heavy portfolio.

SavingsGullible90

No brainer: just 75 to 80 into VOO and rest is VXUS ,sit back and relaxx

Key-Mark4536

Also if it’s a target date fund it’s probably 40% international. VXUS has averaged 6.2% per year the last 5 years, which is fine but not much compared to the run VOO’s had (15% annualized). 

LouayMustafa

Should I sell my Roth IRA stock? So here’s the dilemma, I have about 14k in my Roth IRA (after contributing for 2023 right at the tax deadline) I have yet to invest the my most recent contribution, so that leaves me with $6600 cash (from my 2023 contribution and last years dividend returns) and about 7400 from my original contribution (2022 $6000) which is split up between $6100 in VTI, and 1$300 in VXUS This leads to my question, since I am thinking to wait to invest my cash for VTI and VXUS to drop again (mainly VTI because it is relatively high compared to its history) should I also sell my current VTI and VXUS and re invest all at once? Lastly, I am still yet to contribute for this year (2024) and I am 20 years old, so I am wondering since of course VTI and VXUS are not going to consistently be up every year for the next 40 years of my life, I think it’s a good idea to sell and buy it all back when it drops again, but since I am a noob, I don’t really know if selling my very first investment defeats the purpose of “compound interest” like does keeping an investment for 40 straight years have a benefit vs if I try to sell and time the market, which I know timing the market is looked down upon, but in this situation, since I’m not taking money out for another 40 years, I feel it is quite obvious to say that the stock will obviously drop multiple times, and I think we can all agree it is on the rise since I lost bought it (about 24 VTI at $249) (about 24 VXUS at $59) I’m sure I missed important info so please feel free to ask for more info, and please answer very detailed! Thank you all!

LouayMustafa

Should I sell my Roth IRA stock? Should I sell my Roth IRA stock? So here’s the dilemma, I have about 14k in my Roth IRA (after contributing for 2023 right at the tax deadline) I have yet to invest the my most recent contribution, so that leaves me with $6600 cash (from my 2023 contribution and last years dividend returns) and about 7400 from my original contribution (2022 $6000) which is split up between $6100 in VTI, and 1$300 in VXUS This leads to my question, since I am thinking to wait to invest my cash for VTI and VXUS to drop again (mainly VTI because it is relatively high compared to its history) should I also sell my current VTI and VXUS and re invest all at once? Lastly, I am still yet to contribute for this year (2024) and I am 20 years old, so I am wondering since of course VTI and VXUS are not going to consistently be up every year for the next 40 years of my life, I think it’s a good idea to sell and buy it all back when it drops again, but since I am a noob, I don’t really know if selling my very first investment defeats the purpose of “compound interest” like does keeping an investment for 40 straight years have a benefit vs if I try to sell and time the market, which I know timing the market is looked down upon, but in this situation, since I’m not taking money out for another 40 years, I feel it is quite obvious to say that the stock will obviously drop multiple times, and I think we can all agree it is on the rise since I lost bought it (about 24 VTI at $249) (about 24 VXUS at $59) I’m sure I missed important info so please feel free to ask for more info, and please answer very detailed! Thank you all!

Pension2options

*12 years of data is peanuts* <-- it's addressed in my edit--blame VXUS, or re-run the analysis in 2032. Come back in 2032 and you'll see from 2012-2032, VOO will outperform 50VOO+50VXUS

scientropic

If that’s what you want it’s fine, but it’s not a rule you have to follow. In thirty years of investing I’ve never heard of it. Some investors do all US. Market cap weight is about 60-40. Whatever it is, consider what the reasoning was behind it was. If it appeals to you, go for it. If you wanted to use VT, just do half and half VT & VTI. Or since you need two funds anyway, 80:20 VTI:VXUS. That would be the simplest and most direct way to target whatever US:XS mix you wanted.

JeffB1517

What you are asking is a big unclear. You are right obviously, IVV is almost identical to VOO just from a different company (Blackrock rather than Vanguard). VTRIX is a Vanguard international fund. It is actively managed but inexpensive. GCIIX is holding almost the same portfolio as VXUS structurally but using smart beta techniques to get a better return. It is 82bp so you are paying about 50bp for avoiding problems. In terms of asset allocation if fulfills much the same purpose.

dr_shark

Depends on your age of course. Currently I'm 90/10 stocks/bonds. VTI/VXUS are split 80/20.

SweetTeaRex92

that's why I'm in on VTI and VXUS, and that's it.

Pension2options

Appreciate the update. You can go by their study or you can go by this: Portfolio Analysis Results (Jan 2012 - Mar 2024) Portfolio 1 (VOO) initial $10,000 -> final $52,451 Portfolio 2 (VOO+VXUS) initial $10,000 -> final $33,822 [https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio#analysisResults](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio#analysisResults) I'm not going to read the full text. Like I said, my linked 401K (and rIRA) is "VOO and chill." gl

scientropic

I don’t see how they could. The “international” part is for the stocks the fund holds, not for your account. The IRS will consider those gains in its jurisdiction. At least I have held and traded VXUS for years without any of the sakes proceeds mysteriously disappearing from my account.

LouayMustafa

Should I sell my Roth IRA stock? So here’s the dilemma, I have about 14k in my Roth IRA (after contributing for 2023 right at the tax deadline) I have yet to invest the my most recent contribution, so that leaves me with $6600 cash (from my 2023 contribution and last years dividend returns) and about 7400 from my original contribution (2022 $6000) which is split up between $6100 in VTI, and 1$300 in VXUS This leads to my question, since I am thinking to wait to invest my cash for VTI and VXUS to drop again (mainly VTI because it is relatively high compared to its history) should I also sell my current VTI and VXUS and re invest all at once? Lastly, I am still yet to contribute for this year (2024) and I am 20 years old, so I am wondering since of course VTI and VXUS are not going to consistently be up every year for the next 40 years of my life, I think it’s a good idea to sell and buy it all back when it drops again, but since I am a noob, I don’t really know if selling my very first investment defeats the purpose of “compound interest” like does keeping an investment for 40 straight years have a benefit vs if I try to sell and time the market, which I know timing the market is looked down upon, but in this situation, since I’m not taking money out for another 40 years, I feel it is quite obvious to say that the stock will obviously drop multiple times, and I think we can all agree it is on the rise since I lost bought it (about 24 VTI at $249) (about 24 VXUS at $59) I’m sure I missed important info so please feel free to ask for more info, and please answer very detailed! Thank you all!

dr_shark

Bogglehead that bitch. VTI, VXUS, and BND. Let it grow.

FxHorizonTrading

Go the save route.. VTI / VOO + VXUS 80/20 split and chill

FxHorizonTrading

Well.. dont mix up trading with investing.. How to get rich with *investing*: decent salary invest monthly in low cost index funds e.g. VTI/VOO + VXUS and play the really longterm game aka 20y+ --> focus is on earning more and more to be able to invest more and more as well Ho to get rich with *trading*: performance Slow but steady performance, with risk ratios way above market benchmarks, will get you access to external funds in no time (sale skills needed a bit ad well, ofc), so you dont need a ton of capital on your own.. with that external capital and over performance your pretty quickly able not only to make a decent living, but to get really, really really rich.. Gl!

i_like_my_dog_more

VT is fine. At 40 you may want to consider something like BNDW as well to get some bond exposure too. That really depends on your risk tolerance. But you're 40, not 20, and at least a little bond exposure is probably appropriate. If you itemize your taxes, you could potentially get a foreign tax credit if you chose VTI and VXUS instead of VT. Iirc lump sum works out best about 2/3 of the time. The remaining 1/3 DCA works out best. But with DCA you get the benefit of a little emotional reassurance that you won't put it in and the market immediately takes a dive.

Big-Grip

Say someone has a decent chunk of money they’re wanting to invest with a goal of a 70/30 split into VTI and VXUS. Is it better to invest that money slowly over the course of months by dollar cost averaging, or just throw it all in at once?

grepje

I already have a decent portion of my investments in VXUS, which is very correlated to VEA. Buying EUR denominated debt sounds interesting- any idea how that would affect US taxes?

ButtBlock

There’s nothing you can do to prevent this. If it makes you feel better, VXUS will withhold at the *treaty rate* or lower for its constituent stocks. Versus the higher default withholding rate. So for example Swiss stocks, Switzerland would automatically withhold 35% for taxes for nonresidents, and you could be obligated to pay only 20% taxes so you’d apply for a refund. But applying for a refund is slow and expensive lots of fees et cetera. VXUS does this automatically to minimize the taxes you pay outside the US.

MrOnlineToughGuy

Sorry, yes. I misread your initial response. I think that doing VTI + VXUS to get some ratio other than the actual market cap weighting is the same as trying to time the market. No one can possibly know what the next decade will bring in valuations, same as one couldn’t possibly know if right now is the peak of the next two years. It’s guesswork and I view that as a bad gamble.

three-sense

$10k in VXUS the rest in VTI, enjoy your million

scientropic

You have to weigh the tax issue against the other reasons you might hold international stocks in a tax deferred account. I held VXUS in an IRA for years, and continue to hold other ex-US funds. For one, the account is there, has to be put in something, and allocating by tax issues alone would be limiting. All else being equal, a taxable account where you can claim the foreign tax credit is a bit more tax efficient than a tax deferred account, but it’s not necessarily worth making a rigid rule for.

multiple4

If the goal is to leave it for 40 years, then I'd recommend a mixture of VOO, VXF, and VXUS Personally I also dedicate about 10-20% of my portfolio to more aggressive investments. Some examples of that would be SOXX, VGT, FTEC, QQQ, etc. That depends on your risk tolerance I suppose but for a 40 year time period I think it's smart to try and increase your returns at least a little bit with those types of investments I'd probably dollar cost average about $10k per month

vw503

I go 80/20 split VTI/VXUS.

Squirrelherder_24-7

VTI 80% and VXUS 20% and let ride

perfmode80

Best way to diversify is to get out of those sector specific funds. A diverse asset allocation would be US stocks (VTI), foreign (VXUS or VEA+VWO) then maybe some some REITs or bonds, depending on your time horizon and account type (taxable vs retirement).

Cruian

>The U.S. stock market has outperformed international stocks over the long-term, You're only looking at the end point. There's lots of important information in the middle that you're ignoring. >Again, nothing wrong with investing in VXUS but I would treat it more like a bond holding and risk hedge. A 100% stock fund is in no way anywhere near the same as bonds. As some of my links pointed out: for a certain definition of long term (going back to 1950), the entirety of excess US performance is just from the most recent US favoring part of the cycle. >If you think VXUS is suddenly going to vastly outperform VOO, well...ExUS earnings growth has been poor for a long time. I don't see that magically changing. Valuations matter in the long run. * The last decade or so of US out performance was mostly just the US getting more expensive, not US companies being much better than foreign companies: https://www.aqr.com/Insights/Perspectives/The-Long-Run-Is-Lying-to-You (click through to the full version)

wolley_dratsum

I don't know what to tell you. The U.S. stock market has outperformed international stocks over the long-term, with a 10.17% annualized return since 1926 compared to lower returns for international markets in aggregate (i.e. a makeup like VXUS). I think Warren Buffett said it best: Warren Buffet said it best in his 2022 letter to shareholders (page 9): “America’s dynamism has made a huge contribution to whatever success Berkshire has achieved — a contribution Berkshire will always need. We count on the American Tailwind and, though it has been becalmed from time to time, its propelling force has always returned. I have been investing for 80 years — more than one-third of our country’s lifetime. Despite our citizen’s penchant — almost enthusiasm — for self-criticism and self-doubt, I have yet to see a time when it made sense to make a long-term bet against America. And I doubt very much that any reader of this letter will have a different experience in the future.” Again, nothing wrong with investing in VXUS but I would treat it more like a bond holding and risk hedge. If you think VXUS is suddenly going to vastly outperform VOO, well...ExUS earnings growth has been poor for a long time. I don't see that magically changing.

elitesense

Why is it not advisable? Where is that coming from? The overlap is accounted for and desired, that's why it's only 50% VOO, then VTI adds more S&P (on purpose) with a but more US exposure. VXUS is kind of trash so my international is split SPDW/VXUS.

Cruian

Why not use VTI + VXUS then? VT drifts with global market cap weight, while VXUS would always be 100% ex-US, so you could just do 70/30 VTI/VXUS of you want the fixed ratio. Plus using VXUS should have a very slightly better expense ratio than VT (granted, probably only 1-2 basis points) and the ability to always claim the foreign tax credit for the VXUS side.

Cruian

Revenue source isn't the international diversification that actually matters. Capturing how foreign stock markets behave is. Companies will generally act far more like their home country's market. Fidelity talks about that here: * https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/investing-ideas/international-investing-myths if that link doesn't work: https://web.archive.org/web/20201112032727/https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/investing-ideas/international-investing-myths (Archived copy from Archive.org's Wayback Machine) And it was covered by Ben Felix in a video titled "International Diversification" that was posted last year on YouTube (I really need to find a link to a text only version). I believe he cited several sources. Every vehicle in my work's parking lot is a non-US brand, many electronics are Asian branded, European brands can be found in medicine cabinets, kitchen pantries, and cleaning supply closets across the US. A European brand is a large seller of gasoline in the US. Does that make FZILX or VXUS all you need for US coverage? Of course not, and it doesn't work in reverse either.

snipe320

Overlap is not advisable. You'd be better off 80/20 VTI/VXUS

SirGlass

Its fine , many people will add some foriegn stock holdings for diversity like VXUS , lots of people will not because for the last 15 years it has under performed USA stock index funds like VTI As you age you will want to add bonds to make it a bit more conservative

duyductulsa

buy ETF only if you like lazy and chill 1 ETF = VOO 2 ETF = VOO + VXUS (US best + Non US) 3 ETF = VOO + VXUS + BND ( US + Non US + Bond) how much to invest ? In example: if your income = 10k a year, you invest $10 daily or $50 weekly 20k = $20 daily and so on !

faxanaduu

You can sell and tax loss harvest. Index ETFs might be good for you. VOO or VTI. Auto invest weekly into them and just dont look. A decade or two of that you will be up for sure. Throw in VXUS if you want international exposure. It's very hard to pick individual stock. I invested in my 20s a month before the great recession. It messed with my confidence. That was the best time to buy. I did with 401ks and they have exploded. That showed me that auto investment is brilliant. I buy on dipslump but also auto invest. Might be a good route for you.

AngooriBhabhi

Invest in VTI & VXUS Or just VT

FxHorizonTrading

Maxed 401k? IRA? Buy VTI/VOO + VXUS to be on the safe side.. Thats the way to slow but steady riches - you have a HUGE headstart, dont blow it

JeffB1517

If you want a small and value tilt: FNDA, FNDB, FNDC, FNDD, FNDE, FNDF equal as a core. Non-taxable add SFREX (not available as an ETF). If you want a bit less value: long term investment: 13.33% in each of FNDA, FNDB,FNDC, FNDE, FNDF, VTI, VXUS. Rest (6.66%) VWO

MONGSTRADAMUS

I can tell you what I did for my scv but I don't know if its best for everybody. I used vti and vxus as opposed to VT for my base holdings. added avuv and avdv for some tilting. The overall look of portfolio is 45/30/15/10 VTI/VXUS/AVUV/AVDV. I was basically trying to keep 60/40 US/EXUS and also 3:1 All market to scv tilts.

MaleficentTell9638

Or 48% VTI / 12% VXUS / 40% BND. Works for me.

SmileyChatts

I was thinking of $5.00 being my exit too. But after waiting 4 years for any profit, is it worth the extra $100? I am probably just happy getting any money back after being down as much as 80% at times. I hav been buying VTI every week over that same time period. I have an average share price of $216. Was up as much as 20%, but now about 14%. My experience with MTTR and CHPT was what made me move to VTI/VXUS.

SmileyChatts

I started buying MTTR at around $20 in 2020. I averaged down to $3.99 with 551 shares. Super happy to see it finally in the black after 4 years of waiting.  I’m more of a VTI/VXUS guy now, so I think I’ll just sell for a small profit and move on.  I think having all the cash back to buy more VTI is better than getting some cash and around 17 shares of co star. What do you think? 

OSP_amorphous

Opinions on SMH? I'm 60% VTI and 40% SMH, have another 20-30% of my account in new cash ready to invest, should I got VXUS or SMH? I'm 36 and have steady income and no debt. My thoughts are I can risk SMH for 2 to 3 years and then roll over to VXUS at a random point in the future.

Cruian

>the VEU (I think this is the extended markets etf), or a VO/VB split. VXF is US extended market. VEU is international (a more limited VXUS).

Sprinks36

This is a good idea! VXUS (or VYMI) for international exposure, the VEU (I think this is the extended markets etf), or a VO/VB split.

Cruian

SCHF lacks emerging markets, if those are desired they'd need to either add SCHE or use something like VXUS instead of SCHF. There may be a gaop created by using VB instead of VXF as well when paired with S&P 500.

Cruian

International, such as VXUS, as there's routinely periods international beats the US for runs. US extended market (the parts of the US market that aren't in the S&P 500/C fund). VXF for example. Both of these should have effectively 0% overlap with S&P 500 (as S&P 500 is US only and VXUS can be read as "Vanguard **excluding** US; and VXF essentially picks up where S&P 500 ends).

WhatTheHeck2019

There's a lot of overlap imo, which is why I wouldn't.  If you're wanting to get a piece of everything you could always go with VTI. It had similar performance, but VOO has constantly beat it I believe. Some may recommend also getting a little bit of VXUS for world exposure to round things out. I'm not a fan with its performance though.  There's also bond etfs, but I think that's a bit more for the later years.  Not advice, but I don't think you can go wrong with mostly voo or vti. Maybe set aside a small amount for personal picks and learn by doing. Never know, you might find you're a good trader and become more hands on. 

Zero_Gravity067

Buy low cost index funds (VTI, VXUS) every month in tax advantaged accounts as much as possible that’s investing You don’t predict the market or time you buy it consistently, boring, as automatically as possible , by a preset percentage of your gross income. I have my allocation written down I stick to it rebalance once a year at maximum only keep 10% in individual stocks

Lumpy-Wing-4060

I prefer VTI, VXUS, and VNQ.😎

mustermutti

I agree it makes sense to look at asset allocation holistically across all accounts. So decide what percentage you want in US vs international, and implement that in your overall portfolio. Doesn't really matter what each individual account holds. For taxable, I would prefer VXUS+VTI over VTI due to small tax benefit (foreign tax credit) by the way. Depending on hour relative account sizes you could even go 100% VXUS in taxable and 100% VTI plus some VXUS in Roth (or fidelity fund equivalents).

eyehunt2

I like this, 80% VTI, 10% VXUS, 10% BND would be my only adjustment

02Avy

I’d add some international like VXUS. The rest probably VOO. You already have quite a few positions, but if you’re looking for something else, here are some I like. QQQ VGT MOAT SPHQ SPGP. Portfolio Visualizer is a great website to play with different holdings, and get a better understanding of your own portfolio. Keep killing it man

FxHorizonTrading

Just buy low cost index funds like VTI/VOO + VXUS with a 70/30 or even 80/20 split to have broad diversification, low costs and a real passive cap growth Dont touch it whatsoever and just add whatever you want at any point

Valuable-Analyst-464

Before you load up on taxable, look in the Bogleheads sub for the financial order of operations. Emergency fund, pay off high debt, company match for 401k, HSA, Roth IRA then taxable. (I feel like I forgot something). VTI/VXUS or VT are good ETFs to get going in all of the investment accounts I mentioned.

Beerhavior

I think you're young enough not to worry about bonds yet. I'd do 80% VTI, 20% VXUS and call it a day. 

HulksInvinciblePants

VXUS is negative YTD. Lower volatility over a single day doesn’t negate the worse risk adjusted return.

jwd52

I think virtually every regular, non-insanely rich person would benefit from a “Boglehead” strategy, meaning that you invest in the total market via funds with the lowest possible expense ratios. That means either going 100% VT or something like 65/35 VTI/VXUS. Then as you get older (since you’re so young, we’re talking decades from now) you can start gradually transitioning over to bonds. Doing this guarantees that you’ll capture average returns, all with very little work and relatively low risk. Active stock pickers lose out against this strategy something like 95% of the time over the long run. There’s no good reason to focus on dividends, imo, especially not at such a young age. They’re not free money, and they create taxable events when you might not want them.

Key-Mark4536

I hold several individual stocks, and I thoroughly agree with this. (Aside from maybe putting a bit in an international index fund like EFA or VXUS. But that’s a matter of personal taste.)  Thing to remember is that a stock is an ownership stake in a company, and before you buy a company you should probably have a really good reason to do so. A lot of newcomers just kind of buy into companies they’ve been hearing a lot of buzz about, and that rarely works out. 

AP9384629344432

She's apparently been buying tons of Tesla in recent weeks/days. Believe it or not, even VXUS is outperforming ARKK over 5 years (by 18% total) and YTD (by 16% total), though is 7% behind on 1 year.

Pushinir0n

Lol I bought some ETFs like VOO AND VXUS for my taxable and VTI SCHD QQQM for my Roth . That was like 2-3 weeks ago. And everyday all I’m seeing is RED lolol.. I mean I’m in it for the long term but fuccckkk I’d like to see a Green Day one day 🤣🤣🤣🤣