BYD

Substantial-Lawyer91

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/01/how-accurate-are-population-forecasts.html The direct sources are in the article (hyperlinked) and are linked to actual papers. The rest of what you write is fairly standard anti-Chinese sentiment that only comes around when the equivalent stocks are down. Notice everything you’ve said has been conjecture for decades. Yet nobody says it when the stocks are up. As for Munger - he was talking about Baba specifically not China, mistaking the company for a tech one rather than predominantly retail. More importantly Baba was 15% of his Daily Journal portfolio for the last few years and only trimmed after he passed. He also engineered the BYD purchase which Berkshire still holds just shy of 10% of. I’m not saying they’re no risks - I’m saying the reward is big enough to justify for me, and have positioned myself accordingly (I own JD @ $25, Baba @$72, Baidu @ $100, Tencent @ 240 HKD and BYD @ 180 HKD).

BIGPOTHEAD

Damn you, Cathie. Why did you have to jump into BYD 

Flashy-Marketing-167

BYD has growing sales in almost every country except US and Canada. 

lastfreehandle

You have to understand that ICE vehicles are going away and when it comes to EV tesla is the only profitable and scaled up game in town (BYD too, but only in china so far). Its as simple as that. No "the competition" is not coming (except for all over itself).

PowerStocker

Np, for some perspective, I think Cathie woods was calling China "uninvestable" for a few year. Then recently she bought BYD 😂

IAmInTheBasement

There is no $10k EV in the same market place as any Tesla product. As far as I can tell, BEV BYD's are priced right in line with Tesla models.

MelancholyKoko

The real Tesla killers are made in China by companies like BYD. Can't beat $10K EVs.

Tendie_Tube

This victory lap everyone is crediting Elmo with was actually him giving all his self-driving tech to BYD in exchange for the Chinese government not shutting him down. That tech will appear in drones attacking Taiwan a few years from now.

TechTuna1200

I’m up 40% on JDcom, 10% on Alibaba, and 20 % on BYD. Invested in February.

PowerStocker

So I'm here to offer a different perspective from all the China hate. When everyone says it's "uninvestable" is precisely when you should buy. I remember once upon a time where US companies stock will tank if they DIDNT move their manufacturing to China. Another time when legendary investors flock to Chinese assets and in fact WB still owns BYD to this day.

AluminiumCaffeine

I have BYD, but I am rooting for you guys to pump so all chinese evs move up

AluminiumCaffeine

Thats fair, I myself am pretty burned out after dca-ing for about a year into my basket, but the valuations are just so good vs anywhere else I was willing to sit tight and see what happens. Im flat on BABA, up on BYD, and down a little still on BIDU

InternetImportant911

I would rather buy BYD over Elon products, unfortunately this con man duped me into buying a Mdoel 3 long ago

AluminiumCaffeine

I'm not sure what Elon is doing, but I don't believe fsd is ready to take the main reins soon, and am feeling more comfortable about owning BYD every day recently

AluminiumCaffeine

I only own BYD, profitable, phev heavy, vertically integrated, and much more reasonable valuation imo. Nio outsources manufacturing and isn't profitable. Lcid and rivn were not profitable at higher prices and are now being forced to cut sticker prices as they try to get profitable with volume which to me seems like a really hard challenge without diluting shareholders to crap in coming years. 

Worried_Quarter469

Ark Invest, through its ARK Autonomous Technology & Robotics ETF (BATS:ARKQ), purchased 18,748 shares of BYD Co Ltd. Based on the closing price of $54.47 on the same day, the estimated value of this trade is approximately $1.02 million. This move comes in the wake of a debate between the late billionaire investor Charlie Munger and Wood over the superiority of Tesla, Inc and BYD in the electric vehicle market. CATHIE HAS LOST FAITH IN ELON

Simple-Programmer842

look at statistics.. Tesla has the most sold car in total.. you claimed there were a ton of ther evs you see.. And that claim is bs, if you look at charts and facts. Its not compareable. In Europe you get tge same subsidiary for teslas, aswell as other brands.. (including chinas evs).. Mgs are longer on Markets in Europe.. Infact BYD is here before 2023. I dont know where you get your confirmation biased data.. But facts dont care about your feelings and biases. --- BYD began selling vehicles in Europe in 2021, with Norway serving as the first market[3]. Last year, the company sold 15,644 electric vehicles (EVs) in the region, accounting for a 1.1% market share in the European EV market[3]. Although BYD is already active in Europe, it plans to further expand its market share. Michael Shu, CEO of BYD Europe, stated that the company has "just begun" in Europe and expects to rapidly increase sales. BYD aims to achieve a 5% share of the European EV market even before production begins in Hungary. The Hungarian production facility is expected to start operating before 2026, with a capacity of 150,000 vehicles per year, later expanding to 300,000 vehicles[4][4]. Once production in Europe commences, BYD will be closer to customers and able to offer faster deliveries. The Hungarian plant will produce EVs with locally manufactured battery packs. BYD has already introduced models like the BYD Seal U to the European market, which competes with the Volkswagen ID.4, offering a range of up to 500 km (WLTP) and fast charging (30% to 80%) in 26 minutes. The Seal U was specifically developed for the European market on a new platform. Last year, the BYD Atto 3 was BYD's best-selling model in Europe, with 12,363 units sold[4][4]. It's clear that BYD continues to expand in Europe and strengthen its presence in the EV market. 🚗🔌

27Rench27

BYD’s coming in and could absolutely be a player, if you’re not worried about who owns them

GGprime

Tesla, Ford, pretty much any big player got subsidized. Tesla entered the EU market many years ago, BYD entered in 2023 so the amount of total sales is irrelevant.

NaiveFroyo4152

Agree, Elon Musk on the latest call refused to adapt to the fact that hybrids from the likes of Toyota and BYD are clearly winning. Different situation same outcome, Legacy TSLA full electric $40,000 fast cars for rich pricks will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

l0lprincess

I'm curious as to how Tesla is going to take over China without selling any cars and the existence of BYD.

el_guille980

BYD would like to have a chat. the same BYD that buffett is balls to buns deep in

Jaded_Masterpiece_11

Lmao. Tesla is going the way of Wework dude. It's a car company masquerading as a tech company. It's car business is in a sharp decline and it's promise of futuristic tech were lies to lure out manic investors during the Quantitative Easing era. Musk's antics is alienating Tesla's core demographic customers wich means an even sharper decline in the near future. BYD will be way bigger than Tesla in the coming decades.

BlitzAuraX

It's because of EV's. Largely, in the Chinese auto market. VW had a stronghold in China. I'm pretty sure nearly 50% of VW's profits are from China. China realized that they don't need VW when they can just make EV's and create their own auto industry. You're seeing more and more Chinese domestic vehicles in China than ever and it will only continue growing. BYD has taken a large % of auto shares from VW. This won't bode well for VW. China isn't going back to ICE and VW doesn't have strong EV offerings to match.

MelancholyKoko

CCP's entire thesis is letting the tech leader into their market, using them as benchmark and stealing as much IP as possible. And then once they aren't useful anymore, throwing them away. Apple luckily still has some value to squeeze out so their local competitors like Huawei and Xiaomi can take advantage of Apple's innovation as well as co-opting Apple's supply chain inside China. We'll see how it goes with Tesla. I fully expect Baidu to try to suck Tesla's FSD IP as much as possible while they are "partnered" in China. China already sucked everything useful out of Tesla's physical Electric Vehicle architecture. Chinese companies like BYD can make EVs cheaper and more efficiently than Tesla. All that's left is FSD.

GeneralZaroff1

lol what? Not even close. Tesla isn’t even in the top 10. Tesla WAS at one brief point the top selling EV, but that was quickly overtaken by BYD again recently. In overall car brands, BYD and Volkswagen are usually the top 2, BMW, Geeli, Toyota, etc dominate. The best selling Tesla, the Model Y, is ranked 6th overall. 2023: https://carnewschina.com/2024/01/12/top-selling-car-brands-in-2023-in-china-byd-surpassed-volkswagen-and-won-the-championship-for-the-first-time/ 2024: https://carnewschina.com/2024/02/08/top-selling-car-brands-in-january-2024-in-china-vw-overtook-byd-to-become-no-1/

Swamivik

BYD is the best-selling car brand in China. BYD sold 219,500 vehicles between April 1 and 28. Tesla’s total sales for the period between April 1 and 28 were 28,080 units. Tesla market share went down from 10% to 6%. Lost revenue and profit in China. BYD grew by 4% revenue and 10% profit.

GuessTraining

We wanted to get a Tesla but build quality has always been top of mind because we know a few friends who got one and have told us some of the quality issues. So yeah I guess in that regard they are at the same level as China cars. (Though BYD and MG are pumping out good looking models)

headshotmonkey93

China‘s car companies are basically already on the same level. China decided to go Ev before Tesla was even a thing. You know even Tesla is buying batteries from CATL and BYD?

Amareisdk

Elon wants to kill ICE cars and see FSD succeed. He honestly doesn't care much if Tesla gets overtaken in the process. He just wants it to happen. This is the faster path due to overly complicated legislation in western countries. We need someone to blame before we'll allow FSD. China will just blame the west or Tesla, grab the tech and make a "better" version for BYD.

Boxofcookies1001

I wish I could get a BYD in the US. Those bad boys are nice.

rightsidedown

Assumption is that approval for FSD in China will reverse the market loss to BYD. So basically watch for gains in China, if no gains stock resumes its fall.

fatbunyip

It's cos Elon the Dumbass had a meeting with some head honcho in China about doing FSD. In 3 months, get ready for China to say Tesla's FSD is shit, an BYD's gets approved. Cue Elon twitter rant about trans people and being woke is the end of the world.

Arachnidle

Me waiting on BYD to enter north america

No-Split3260

That is also no true, BYD is a big company that provides competitive EV's for the lower and middle income segments. However, their net margins ar shit compared to Tesla.

No-Split3260

yourre right with the pricecuts, but BYD has 1,77%

granoladeer

That's a great gift to BYD and other competitors

wgp3

They're still the best selling EV car maker period still. In q4 2023 BYD briefly sold more pure BEV than tesla by a small amount that quarter, but Tesla still sold more for the entire year of 2023. Then in q1 2024 Tesla and BYD had negative quarter over quarter growth from q4 2023. This led to Tesla once again have more sales of pure BEV than BYD. So for now Tesla is still top dog but it's clear BYD is on a path that could consistently overtake them by the end of this year.

ThenExtension9196

Just in time for BYD to clone the tech.

wgp3

What company has 50% less sales yoy? Were you referring to the 43% drop in EV sales from q4 2023 to q1 2024 for BYD? Tesla sales were only down a small percent both qoq and yoy. BYD was down massively qoq but almost flat, slightly above, yoy for EV sales.

_hiddenscout

The way I see it is with TSLA, it had a lot of negative news and expectations built in. The big news from their earnings was more about producing the cheaper car. Right now, EV seem to be somewhat slowing down in terms of demand and part of the reason is price. China has their own EV market, which is pushing down prices for them with like BYD. Today TSLA also announced they are rolling out self driving in China: [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgxwlqej0jjo](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgxwlqej0jjo) With Google, there really is no news or reason why. I think it could just be more around algorithms trading since I believe this is the first time Google has now traded over a 2T market cap. Thing to remember along the way, outside of macro market news or news around the company, stocks will just trade how they trade in the short term, especially when looking at daily movements. There are a few other exceptions, like when things trade in sympathy.

MirrorCrazy3396

My man, people here say BYD has dethroned Tesla when BYD basically doesn't exist outside of China... and even then there's some people talking about how BYD sales in China aren't exactly real, but mostly sales to companies that sell cars and that they just sit there (I can't provide actual proof of this, but I've read people talk about how there seem to be incongruencies between BYD sales and actual BYD vehicles going around). This ignores that BYD (this is also an upside for them though) is a CCP subsidiary and that they basically have "profit margins" based on Chinese labor and government assistance, they probably wouldn't make any money if it wasn't for this. Did I forget to mention their sales are down like 40% since last quarter?

GreenMellowphant

Just back to float a little. Next up, a BYD licensing partnership. I thought it was Ford, but now I’m thinking BYD.

cadium

China will require them to train in China, which means they'll have access to the code around training. Meaning a competitor can just Ctrl+c Ctrl+v that for BYD or whoever.

Appropriate_Ant_4629

For those who don't know: https://en.byd.com/bus/about/ >> BYD started with six U.S. employees in 2013 and has since expanded to over 1,000, including its unionized workforce of 750 in Lancaster, California.

Fauster

Probably way more FSD-related data than China deserves to add to their giant databases on every bit of unencrypted and future-hackable encrytped minutiae regarding the U.S. The result will probably be the same as the result of Elon setting up a factory in China: that China will steal everything and a subsidized rival will lap Tesla. In this case, China needs training weights for Tesla in-car neural networks without the expense of training or gathering data, in the name of Chinese "data security." But, that's not fair to BYD, because they are probably the best battery manufacturer in the world, with CATL second, and Elon is buying BYD's batteries for Chinese-produced Teslas. I think Elon's primary motivation was that Jensen Huang announced that Nvidia would be rolling out self-driving-assistance software with BYD. But, this is all speculative. I wouldn't short Tesla because they have all that training data, but I'm definitely uncomfortable in the back seat when Elon is driving. I think Elon was probably motivated that Jensen Huang's announcement

Decent-Photograph391

I got news for you, BYD is already building and selling electric buses in US. They have a factory in California. And you think there’s no Chinese EVs on the road in US today? Guess where is Polestar made in? I’m not talking necessarily about direct import of EVs shipped from China. More like coming in from Mexican factories, which is probably slightly less untenable politically, since we have a free trade agreement with Mexico though NAFTA.

Xinlitik

Anytime China “partners” with a tech company, the tech is stolen. So watch out for BYD’s “total auto cruising” in 3 years

roundupinthesky

Elon selling out all of proprietary tech to Chinese manufacturers to save a buck. Him building Tesla factories in China is what lead to BYD and the company’s downfall. Only thing he can bank on is anti-China regulation in this scenario.

gnocchicotti

Calls on Baidu and BYD for their new FSD in 12 months 

RealBaikal

So BYD will have a fsd copy by the end of the year lmao

Safe_Way_7154

no one is buying Tesla cars in China. BYD (Buffett's pick) is top EV seller, Huawei started selling EVs. country moving away from American products 😒

SweetNSour4ever

was in China a month ago and all i saw was BYD EVs, dont think ive seen a single tesla

Financial-Chicken843

😂 people pretending China didnt pour money and sweat into the ev technology themselves to get ahead. Companies like BYD didnt appear outta nowhere. Theyve been making batteries and electric buses and trucks for decades now. But yes china only knows how to steal 🤔

TechTuna1200

>Instead we are seeing Tesla lunch being eaten up by BYD in developing countries and legacy automakers in Europe I said legacy European automakers (VW, Mercedes etc.) are beating Tesla in the European market. BYD is dominating in markets outside Europe and the US. But with that being said BYD is beginning to anchor itself in the European market.

anontalk

Which country in Europe is BYD dominating in sales? Been hearing it a lot lately.

m0nk_3y_gw

Buffet had a big investment in China's BYD. He has trimmed his position in 2022/2023, but he wasn't/isn't America-only.

TechTuna1200

The current valuation suggest that Tesla are going to dominate the car market in the future. Instead we are seeing Tesla lunch being eaten up by BYD in developing countries and legacy automakers in Europe. On top that Hybrid cars are slowing down the EV market as a whole.

ElderberryCareful879

The stock markets in developing countries do not operate the same as the stock market in the US. Companies in developing countries do not operate the same way as a US company when it comes to financial statements/transparency. For retail investors, it's a huge risk. Now if you have money and access like Warren Buffet and you can work out a deal with a company like BYD 10+ years ago, that is a different story.

insanecocksmell

stop your nonsense. BYD is having a large manufacturing site being built in Central EU..

ThreeSupreme

**Tesla – The New King In Town?** Tesla has been manufacturing electric vehicles for over a decade and has shown significant progress. They’ve managed to scale production, improve technology, and even achieve profitability, which is a notable accomplishment in this industry. **Tesla's stock valuation is absurdly high compared its actual revenue** Tesla’s stock valuation has indeed been a topic of much debate. While it’s true that Tesla’s current valuation is high compared to its revenue, it’s important to understand that stock prices are often driven by investor expectations about a company’s future earnings potential, not just its current revenue. Even so, Tesla’s stock is worth more than that of Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Volkswagen and Stellantis combined. Even though Tesla is an automaker, it’s valued as more of a tech company, with a share price that puts it in the camp of companies like Apple, Nvidia and Microsoft. **Rank \* Company \* Market Cap** 1 Tesla (TSLA) - **$536.71 Billion**, USA 2 Toyota (TM) - **$305.47 Billion**, Japan 3 Porsche (P911.DE) - **$87.57 Billion**, Germany 4 Mercedes-Benz (MBG.DE) - **$85.15 Billion**, Germany 5 BYD (002594.SZ) - **$84.72 Billion**, China Investors may be pricing in the expectation that Tesla will continue to grow and dominate the electric vehicle market, which is expected to expand significantly in the coming years. They may also be factoring in Tesla’s potential in other areas like energy storage and autonomous driving technology. However, high expectations also mean that Tesla will need to deliver on these growth prospects to justify its valuation. Any setbacks or slower-than-expected growth could impact its stock price. Tesla’s once-robust margins have been in steady decline since Q2 2022, but fell under 20% for the first time in years during the first half of 2023. Tesla reported margins of 18.2% in the second quarter, a result of the automaker’s many price cuts across all models and markets. CEO Elon Musk has attributed the discounts to lower demand in an uncertain economic environment, but analysts also see headwinds in supply chain issues and increasing competition. With the stock price continuing to tumble, bears say Tesla’s share price is starting to reflect the reality of the company: Tesla talks a big game, but in the end, it’s just an automaker with automaker problems. “They’re a metal bender like everybody else,” Kevin Tynan, senior automotive analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, told TechCrunch+. “The bulls want you to believe that Tesla is somehow a different kind of company, and it deserves a different valuation more like what you would afford to a tech company. But the reality is, it has automaker margins now. It has automaker problems and automaker cyclicality in its core business.” While the historical failure rate of auto manufacturers provides some context, it doesn’t necessarily predict the future outcomes for Tesla, Apple, or Google in regard to their respective auto manufacturing endeavors. Their success will depend on their ability to leverage their strengths, navigate challenges, and deliver products that meet the needs and preferences of consumers in a rapidly evolving market.

10outofC

Respectfully, how familiar are you with the international ev market? BYD sold more in the largest market, china than tesla did by a long shot, 100k units. Internationally speaking, BYD and telsa are neck and neck by overall sales and BYD made more cars than tesla for 3 years in a row: https://www.statista.com/statistics/960121/sales-of-all-electric-vehicles-worldwide-by-model/ https://autovista24.autovistagroup.com/news/byd-took-control-of-the-2023-chinese-ev-market/#:~:text=The%20BYD%20Song%20was%20the,second%2Dplace%20Tesla%20Model%20Y. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/24/business/china-ev-industry-competition-analysis-intl-hnk https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q1-2024-ev-sales/ Tesla is losing market share, even in North america. Given the build quality issues, not even to mention supporting musk himself, most prudent consumers will go the company that's associated with stability. That is not tesla.

ilostmyeraser

Oh elon. You never should have bought twitter for donny. Every second of the day..he thinks about what he could have done with that 50 billion. BYD is backed by old buffet. Buffet is the master manipulator. BYD is going to take 30% of the ev market.

pinghing

Will Tesla pump after Elon finds out BYD has been preferred by the Chinese gov over Tesla?

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

BYD is getting a lot of news buzz about their $10k full electric vehicle. [https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/byds-new-ev-starting-under-10000-stoking-fear-rivals/](https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/byds-new-ev-starting-under-10000-stoking-fear-rivals/)

SoZur

BYD is frustrating. Everybody from Tim Cook to my crazy aunt praises that company, but it fails to materialize on the stock price after 2021. BYD needs a bullshitter-in-chief like Elon.

Substantial_Lake5957

It’s was Japanese, then Korean, and now this. I still don’t understand why people are fascinated by Kia or Hyundai these days. I will never buy or even drive any of those for sure. BYD? Only time will tell.

grizzly_teddy

If they wanted to? Sure why not. They won't be as cheap though. BYD heavily reliant on Chinese subsidies and cheap labor. Probably doesn't make sense to open a plant here in the US. Also risky if US consumers will actually buy a Chinese vehicle. I will never buy a Chinese car. Period. Also BYD more or less breaking even on EVs in China, despite cheap labor and subsidies. They really only making money on hybrids right now.

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

TSLAs in an okay spot because Dems will force green transition stuff and Repubs will probably force tariffs. BYD's 10K full electric car is coming for that ass though.

Silver08ToyotaCamry

Didn’t buy BYD @ $4/share

Substantial_Lake5957

So BYD should set up a shop in the states and start selling US made BYD cars?

stockrot

Apparently, big mouth has about 10 shares of BYD sitting in front of a computer and telling other people they don’t know anything. When it’s only accomplishment was he finally figured out how to suck his own dick cause mommy stopped doing it for him.

osiris679

Had an opportunity to buy a few large tranches of BYD , ended up buying some other lots instead

babypho

Rip BYD

NVDAPleasFlyAgain

ARK is basically an inverse fund, as in do the opposite of whatever she does. BYD started their foray into Europe officially this year, and look: [China unsold EVs clogging up Europe ports](https://qz.com/china-evs-demand-sales-electric-cars-ports-1851416312) [Europe Car Sales Drop in March as EV Weakness Persists](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-18/europe-car-sales-drop-in-march-as-ev-weakness-persists?leadSource=reddit_wall) Car sales in general has been fucked this 2 years, leaps puts on automotive is free money but this regard jumped right back in

WEST-OLD-XU

确实，所以只有在A股才有所谓政策牛这种行情，政府对市场干预太深了，导致市场是政府主导的市场，而政府干预后的产业往往会一地鸡毛，新能源汽车应该就是下一个光伏产业，BYD虽然现在成为最大的新能源汽车制造商，但是他利润太薄了，而且目前还在打价格战

cosimonh

The reason why they are flooding the western markets is because consumption in China is abysmal for the size of China. Chinese people are too poor to buy the goods that they produce, except those living in first and second tier cities. With Chinese yuan being kept weak, it makes their goods cheaper to the international market but also means goods from overseas will be more expensive for Chinese consumers. How was BYD able to produce goods cheaply to flood western markets? They are heavily subsidised by the Chinese government. This happened to steel and aluminium production, with China flooding the market with cheap heavily subsidised metal, dumping excess into western markets and greatly affecting US Steel. Pretty unfair trading tactics when it's a foreign government getting involved to crash your market. Sure BYD is doing well as it has firmly got it's got into western markets, but for every BYD, thousands of companies are closing up shop as they couldn't make the cut then couldn't get subsidies from the government. BYD and solar panel manufacturing aren't able to prop up the Chinese market. A taxi ride around Shanghai and taxi drivers will tell you their friends and family's business is doing very poor. Easy for Ray Dalio to crunch some numbers released by the Chinese government and think China will turn a corner soon, but remember China manipulates a lot of their data. People who don't look at the hard reality on the ground level and ignore geopolitics will end up making costly mistakes.

Weekly_vegan

Buffet didn't buy TSLA he bought BYD. You can shut up with your failed investment now. We get it, you bought TSLA at the top and you think it's not a car company.

holololololden

Elon is the one that's gonna lay off thousands of well-paid auto workers not BYD

OxbridgeDingoBaby

I don’t think he’s ever said anything bad against BYD? Plus isn’t he supportive of other car manufacturers? He’s always posting congratulation messages to Ford/Farley on their electric news.

Greengiant2021

BYD is fairly sound investment imo…Cathy wood on the other hand has had a long run of crappy investment luck. BYD yes…. CW NO!

Swamivik

Why comment if you don't know BYD at all and just writing nonsense? BYD made 3 million cars last year and exported 240,000. It's main revenue is in China. EU is not significant for BYD at this time. In China only 33% of cars are EV. The Chinese government is making a significant push for the country to switch to EVs and get rid of Legacy cars. You can see from how China can lock down whole cities for Covid, the government is now pushing the country to fully switch to EV. It is why so many EV makers have sprung up because everyone want a slice of the growing market. In case you didn't know Tesla sold 670k cars in US and 603k cars in China in 2023 and the Chinese market is getting larger due to government directive whereas it is slowing down in the US. The losers are all the legacy car makers especially Japanese like Toyota and Nissan and it seem like Tesla since they are losing market share in China. In terms of exports, BYD is everywhere in Australia, Malaysia and South East Asian countries etc etc It is also building a factory in Thailand, Brazil and Hungary. It is like with most industries, there will be a lot of competition in the beginning and within a few years there will be a consolidation of a few major players left. BYD will be one of them. Buffett buy companies with good management. Why Charlie Munger turned down Tesla for BYD.

EastvsWest

To be fair BYD is a legit player in the EV, manufacturing space. They are fully integrated with production, manufacturing and distribution. The owner is smart and the company is one of the good ones but nobody is going to forgive Ark for selling Nvidia at the bottom right before the AI boom.

stockrot

The EU will follow the United States in a tarriff . Especially if they want funding of the war in their backyard. Russia and China are partners and want to play havoc with the US. So EU goes away... where does BYD sell cars ? Africa?, the saturated Chinese market? TSM isnt building advanced Chip manufacturing in the US because Tiawan like,s the weather in Arizona . And the US is helping them .Cathy Wood got lucky once and made a name for herself me personally I wouldnt invest a nickle with her . I will say she timed TSLA pretty good selling at the top and buying back in lately. The Geopolitcal situation is going to get more volitile so unless BYD can Thrive on Domestic sales I dont see them blowing up . China stocks have been flat to down ,just look at Alibaba.

Swamivik

But BYD is not betting on America. In fact, they specifically said they are not looking to enter the American market due to geopolitical tensions. But everywhere else where there are no tariffs on BYD, they are crushing. Buffett hasn't exited BYD. He is still the largest BYD shareholders of H shares. He specifically mentioned he was reducing his stake due to geopolitical tensions rather than business fundamentals. What is telling is that he completely sold TSMC for the same reason but still has shares in BYD.

Silver-Stable-8268

BYD is Doomed

stockrot

I wouldnt bet too much on that ..... Or at least wait till November , If Trump is elected not one BYD EV will come into the country without a 500% tarriff and the European Union will follow suit. Buffet has exited his position at a huge profit he knows the following . The statement is not political it is just a fact. China,s plan to build in Mexico and flood the market with cheap Chinese EVs wont work . I dont care what political persuasion you are, The United states people are not going for China putting hundreds of thousands of high paid Auto workers in the US out of work. And China themselves has too many EV producers diluting their domestic market bad news for BYD

Swamivik

I broken clock struck twice situation here. I am betting BYD would be one of the few EV makers left when the dust is settled on this price war.

cosimonh

Chinese market is fucked. The population peaked, people too poor to afford more children. Workforce shrinking. The size of the middle class that can properly afford to buy stuff is a lot smaller than what people thought. Their government being hostile to the west is driving decoupling fast. Direct foreign investment has dropped by 90%. Government hijacking one of their biggest tech companies as well as new rules and policies that appear overnight has scared most investors away. Now they are also looking at their housing market bubble deflating where the majority of people's savings are located. There will be some companies that do well, but the majority will be losers so not worth the risk of investing. Even BYD being the biggest electric vehicle manufacturer was heavily subsided by their government to undercut Tesla and other EVs in order to force their way into European and US automobile market. EU is gonna start putting tariffs on these unfair trade practices.

shawman123

how about comparisons with say $QS and $SLDP. Any thing special about $ENVX. I know even Sila nanotech has silicon anode batteries and are working with Mercedes for a long time. There is also Lyten with LiS battery. Its risky to invest in any of them until they have a product that use their battery which is in mass production. Otherwise Chinese battery makers like CATL and BYD will continue to dominate the segment.

Substantial-Lawyer91

The reason is because Tesla already *has* performed. It went from an unprofitable newcomer in an unborn industry trying to compete against legacy companies that had decades and decades of experience and customer loyalty. And Tesla won. They are still one of only two car companies to be able to produce a profitable EV (the other one being BYD) and have margins and debt levels far superior to *anyone* else in the industry. By critiquing Tesla now you are not critiquing Amazon in 2000, you’re critiquing Amazon in 2014 after they’ve already proven themselves.

Fwellimort

Then every company dependent on TSMC (and TSMC) should crash. And every company dependent on China for growth story should crash (Apple, etc). Rationally, it makes no sense why that risk isn't factored to some stocks and a lot to other stocks. It's completely ignored with stocks like BYD too.

AluminiumCaffeine

Hong Kong had a great day last night, BYD pushing back up, I think longer term if Elon is giving up on cheaper normal car models and really going all in or close to on robottaxi byd is in a better of spot losing their main international competitor and continuing to focus on low price phevs/bevs

SuddenlySilva

Here's why I'm bullish on Tesla- EVs are better cars all around and Tesla is the reason we know that. Everybody with a 20 mile commute and a home where they can install a charger would be better off if they bought one tomorrow. BYD is the only real competition. The US legacy carmakers are not really trying, they are sticking their toe in the water and using EVs to leverage CAFE standards. EVs are terrible for their business model of fleecing customers in the service department. If Biden wins the in 2024, EV demand and incentives will increase dramatically. We probably won't hit the 2035 goals but the world will be a different place in 10 years. The legacy carmakers will have a hard time making money on EVs for a few more years. Every EV Tesla sells is an EV tesla sells- with all the margin. Every EV Ford sells is an ICE car they didn't sell so as EV penetration spread Teslas revenue will increase faster even if Elon is a fascist. The media says the stock rose because of the promise of cheap Teslas. But the financial press doesn't know shit about anything. I think it went up because investors believe what I believe about the future and were relieved that Elon had something positive to say.

judgefriendlyhand

Elon will be working on a BYD assembly line by July 17

Trucktrailercarguy

Ummm I'm Canadian so I venture all time outside of The U.S. Nothing you have said has made me change my mind. BYD has improved their product! Big deal so has everyone else. BYD also has the benefit of a closed communist market. Intel makes cpus not gpu's that's why they are losing the lead. You are literally looking at the numbers of a country that produces the most cars period. China produces more cars in one month than Canada buys all year. So of course their numbers are going to be inflated compared to anyone else. Secondly the quality control and manufacturing standards of that country is literally awfull. Give it some time and all will be revealed.

WonderfulMotor4308

TSLA bulls realizing that 1) no one wants a car that depreciates 80% in 4 years. 2) The plan to introduce cheaper cars means current models have even worse re-sale and after-sales. 3) Chinese EV (BYD, Nio even freaking Huawei) means a race to the fuckin bottom in search for margins. TL:DR; TSLA bul fuk

Most-Negotiation-60

Many things contradictory in your post. For one, past net income doesn't matter, only future net income does, and China has started a price war with Tesla which Tesla simply cannot win outside of America. Layoffs, specifically what Tesla did with regards to factory workers is bad, because car production has flat costs and only is profitable with economies of scale. In addition, Tesla had 5.5% margins last quarter and this likely only gets worse as they are going to have to continue lowering their car prices to get sales. Total company net income divided by cars delivered is down to $3000 the lowest since 2020, and is not likely to get better with the competition from China, running factories under capacity, loss of preferential tax treatment, etc. Tech companies can produce the same with less resources because their margins are so high, and do not require massive capex spending. Tesla does not have that luxury. I know how bond rates affect the economy, and I expect them to be flat or even increase later this year. And on your last point, China is absolutely NOT in a recession, the reason Apple and Tesla are doing poorly in China is because native brands are simply outcompeting them. Apple is getting outcompeted by Vivo, Huawei. Tesla is getting outcompeted by the massive amounts of EV companies, most notably BYD. BYD still sold more cars YoY Q1 2024 in China, whereas Tesla had a decrease YoY Q1 2024 in China.

mscotch2020

This. Between the crap Tesla and BYD, Tesla is millions times better Tax BYD into oblivion

iLoveFemNutsAndAss

Oh lord. The same BYD with something like a 40% drop in sales from 2023 Q4 to 2024 Q1? Without looking at your profile, I bet I can find plenty of Elon hate. There is no reason to think BYD is outperforming Tesla in any metric outside of raw sales numbers (the same metric that dropped 40%). I could go on, but I’m sure you won’t be convinced. The market is irrational. Everything I’m saying is false. The markets are rigged and you guys have it all figured out. My bad.