SEC

JackRipster

Was only a matter of time. The SEC labeled them as securities and the CEXs didnt remove them.

cryptotentnew

Thanks again. Forgot where I read it but I think that Lawyer on youtube Jeremy Hogan was predicting that the SEC would appeal whatever the Judge decides and the case won't end until later on in 2025.

FrequencyRealms

My post got bizarrely Censored by the AI Moderator Bot so i'm posting it here. # SEC / BTC / Gemini “‘Gary Gensler has become their attack dog. He is Elizabeth Warren’s pit bull.” - Cameron Winklevoss

mdcbldr

Class action my butt. This is an astroturf class action law suit. Those six are paid spokesmen. Using a small investor gives the case a popular appeal that the SEC vs. RIPPLE lacks. The problem with these suits is that they will give the SEC and the government broad powers over cryptos and potentially other businesses models. I am no friend of Coinbase. They are run by scum who design new ways to get a chunks of change from you, block you from access to taking funds out, doing everything to make putting money in. These clowns took 7 months to KYC me. They were much less rigorous when they accepted my money. They say you can get your money when you want. Not exactly. I saw the headline and was hoping someone would sue for their God awful rules designed to keep your money. Bank have become criminal organizations. The process drug money, process terrorist transfer, steal from their customers, underpay employees, collude to set loanrates higher than they would be in a fair market, use reservations and SD to avoid regulations they would otherwise be subject to. And the list goes on. Is there no limit to their greed?

SunDreamShineDay

Here are a few banks and payment companies that are using XRP that have all partnered with Ripple since the SEC sued Ripple in 2020, they all say XRP is being used in the articles. SBI Remit said that it had expanded its services using Ripple’s XRP to bank accounts in the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia. By leveraging XRP as a bridge currency and partnering with its affiliate SBI VC Trade, SBI Remit aims for faster and cheaper money transfers that can boost adoption of XRP in target markets. SBI Remit and Ripple are eyeing these Southeast Asian markets because of their growing remittance flows. https://www.kapronasia.com/blockchain-research-menu-item/sbi-leans-further-into-digital-assets.html

Ku-no-ku

This is like suing your girlfriend because her dad threatened to beat you up. (CB = girlfriend, SEC = dad. Why not sue the dad?).

MaximumStudent1839

> any legal requirements for timeframes regarding an ICO launch? The lack of legal protections for ICO participants is partly why the SEC is all over this space, and maybe also why Gensler turned negative on crypto.

WebProject

No, the scam jokers are in US government and SEC are more scares

R4ID

>R4ID, thanks for that very detailed and incredible post, I'm very thankful that there is someone like you who really gets into the depth of what's going on there. I read your post last night and it was a lot to read so I waited until this morning with a fresh cup of coffee to read it again and absorb it all and am glad I did. Thanks for the updates too, I'm sure this will help many who are curious about XRP. NP, im usually around to answer crypto or XRP/Ripple specific questions. >When I first heard about the 2 Billion fine that the SEC was proposing, I right away wondered how they came to that amount and it really looks like they just pulled it out of thin air. The way this case has been going, whatever the Judges says, it appears more than likely that the SEC is going to appeal it anyway so this could easily drag out another year or so which makes everything possibly hang on the Coinbase case as you mentioned. Yea, the SEC needs to be careful tho if they appeal without a lot of "good facts" they will set bad caselaw president which will screw them in the future with not just the Ripple case but every future case.

serbeardless

They definitely don't work for the SEC.

cryptotentnew

R4ID, thanks for that very detailed and incredible post, I'm very thankful that there is someone like you who really gets into the depth of what's going on there. I read your post last night and it was a lot to read so I waited until this morning with a fresh cup of coffee to read it again and absorb it all and am glad I did. Thanks for the updates too, I'm sure this will help many who are curious about XRP. When I first heard about the 2 Billion fine that the SEC was proposing, I right away wondered how they came to that amount and it really looks like they just pulled it out of thin air. The way this case has been going, whatever the Judges says, it appears more than likely that the SEC is going to appeal it anyway so this could easily drag out another year or so which makes everything possibly hang on the Coinbase case as you mentioned. The way the SEC has latched onto Ripple and won't let go is almost unprecedented. I sometimes feel Ripple has been fighting for all of crypto. Hopefully this ends well sooner than later.

Historical_Archer548

It really depends on your goals and availability. If you’re only playing eth and btc then yes. But most of in this space are playin alts as ROI is potentially better. Eth ETF has been approved in HK but not in the US yet and a of now the SEC seems to not want it to be one.

DiscardedPumpkin

The DoJ charges have nothing to do with gensler and the SEC.

TheRicFlairDrip

The plaintiffs are not the SEC in this lawsuit, but a bunch of randos…. Wont end well for them, imagine going against one of the biggest companies in the world in a legal dispute 💀💀💀

John_Crypto_Rambo

Reminder that the SEC failed to prove that XRP is a security when it obviously is one.

StumbleMyMirth

The impact could be devastating. If SEC sues (which it’s clear at this point they are preparing to do) and wins, then they would be required to register with the SEC or be forced off US exchanges, cutting them off from the worlds largest capital market, tanking price. If they did try to file in order to remain listed on US exchanges, they would be forced to provide complete and honest disclosures about their origins, which would air all the dirty laundry and likely fraudulent activity that went into the premine and ICO, and this knowledge alone would likely drive many smart investors away, also tanking the price. If they try to file and that filing is rejected, now all the dirty laundry is aired AND they are forced out of US markets. Sure ETH would continue to exist outside the US, but at nowhere near today’s prices because the US is where all the meaningful money resides. It would basically be a death blow to ETH and DeFi in the US, which I’m sure is SEC’s goal. “Take out the mother a**hole from which all sh*tcoins spawn” Their only hope would be a ruling that the fundraising activities Vitalik and Lubin undertook to premine and sell ETH for dollars, during an initial coin offering, did not amount to the illegal sale of unregistered securities.. given their activities are functionally equivalent to starting a software company and having an IPO, with a promise of profits to initial investors, clearly passing the Howey test, I would be very surprised to see a different outcome. Only time will tell, it’s gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.

0xjellybean

SEC is against all CEX with lawsuit 1 after the other

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Six Coinbase customers have filed a class-action lawsuit against Coinbase Global and its CEO, Brian Armstrong, alleging that the digital assets listed on Coinbase, including Solana, Polygon, and others, are securities and thus subject to state securities laws. The lawsuit accuses Coinbase of knowingly violating these laws and deceiving its users by claiming it does not sell securities, despite admitting to being a "Securities Broker" in its user agreement. The plaintiffs, from California and Florida, seek cancellation of their purchase agreements, statutory damages, and injunctive relief. This lawsuit adds to Coinbase's legal challenges, including an ongoing lawsuit by the SEC. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

R4ID

IANAL >If a criminal uses their crime proceeds to invest in stocks and they went up 50% then from my understanding they wouldnt get to keep the 50% they made legally from illegals gains. so my understanding is that it would fall under "“traditional equitable limitations" which essentially is that The original funds are "tainted" due to their origin being criminal in nature(IE Fraud, theft, etc) which would mean that if the source is proven to be criminal, then not just the disgorgement would be sought on the profit but also on the original amount of the funds as well. There was a case Called Liu v SEC that explored the disgorgement and its limitations based on equitable remedy. The only thing I think that was deducted was the legitimate expenses from the total amount.

Embarrassed-Score714

My view might contradict this guy. While Garlinghouse's support for Ethereum contradicts Saylor's stance on its regulatory status, it's crucial to acknowledge that the SEC's scrutiny on Ethereum focuses on specific transactions rather than labeling the entire asset as a security. If you look carefully at the Consensys' lawsuit against the SEC further highlights the complexity of regulatory classification and the ongoing debate within the crypto community regarding Ethereum's regulatory status. In my opinion, Investors should remain vigilant and conduct thorough research amid evolving regulatory landscapes to mitigate potential risks associated with their investments. I research and share weekly cryptoalpha on my newsletter: [https://cryptofada.substack.com/](https://cryptofada.substack.com/), you may consider checking it out

SmoothGoing

Should be public info. See SEC reports.

LuigiSqueezy

One key difference to keep in mind would be that it's impossible to naked short btc. The SEC allows for gross manipulation of the stock market with firms able to sell stocks that they don't even own. No parameter exists, or would ever exist, to allow bitcoin to be sold without first owning it.

UpLeftUp

Why would they want to just give away profit by dropping their fees. Instead, they've created a 'new' product with very low fees. If people want to go through the hassle of moving in order to reduce fees, they can just move to the Grayscale Mini Trust (once that's approved by the SEC). Which has just a 0.15% fee. Grayscale get the best of both worlds. They're able to keep milking the investors that don't regularly review their investments / can't be bothered changing funds. While anyone who does regularly review and is sensitive to fees can move 'away' but stay with Grayscale.

mugatucrazypills

SEC investigator has entered the chat ! AMA

kpooo7

Well to quote the article you site there was plenty of blame to go around “As I mentioned in the previous article, there is plenty of blame to go around for why GBTC became such a toxic wrecking ball for the broader cryptocurrency industry. You can blame the crypto lenders for their shockingly poor risk management. You can also blame hedge funds and institutional investors for putting on extremely risky trades with obscene amounts of leverage. You can blame Genesis/DCG for providing the leverage in the first place to pump its revenues. Lastly, you can blame the SEC, which denied Grayscale from converting GBTC into a spot Bitcoin ETF for years, which would have eliminated the market inefficiency and better-protected investors”. So DTC was making money legally and FTX and others were over leverage or crooks, sounds like 2008 all over again.

AssmunchStarpuncher

They need SEC approval to adjust an SEC approved product. They can’t just change the fees on a product that has peoples money in it. SEC is reviewing their proposal but it will be weeks to months before a decision is made.

Undeniable-Truth

SEC suing Bill Burns,…impossible. Like a snake eating itself

R4ID

> So, my question is .......since institutional sales of XRP were deemed illegal, how would Ripple go about their business in using XRP as the cross border bridge currency that they keep talking about if they can't sell it to the banks and all the financial companies that need to use it siince according to the Judge, those sales were illegal? Only Ripples Past sales to institutions were deemed illegal, the SEC is seeking 3 things, an injunction against further violations(which is silly since Ripple only sells via ODL now), disgorgement and a penalty fee (just shy of a $2 Billion Total) the injunction would obviously cause a problem with Ripples current ODL sales because currently the judge has lumped ODL and institutional sales together. Ripple replied in their brief explaining that theses ODL sales should have a caveat/should be except and should be excluded from the other illegal instructional sales (ripple wrote a full page talking about their ODL contracts in the reply brief to the judge) to answer your question, a ruling from a higher court at the end of October last year, in SEC v Govil happened. This case caused a big problem for the SEC, This problem is that the SEC has failed to show any disgorgement (aka Nobody was harmed, the SEC has no "victims" it is claiming to protect) So who is the Disgorgement for?(Its Ripples current position/logic) The Govil's case ruling essentially made it so that an investor is not a "victim" for equitable purposes if he suffered no pecuniary harm. (meaning the SEC needs to show that people who used ODL suffered harm) which will be very hard since most ODL transactions take place in mere seconds and people are using it to help their business process transactions/payments at a cheaper, faster, more secure rate. The SEC is going to have a hard time arguing people who bought XRP at a lower price over the last few years (when compared to todays price) somehow suffered losses/damages after only holding XRP for 3-5 seconds. The SEC's current argument after that update (this happened a few weeks ago) is that Some customers "Potentially suffered" damage because Ripple gave discounts to specific companies in some cases, and doesn't disclose the discount amount. This means different buyers had different prices. That argument is pretty speculative and doesnt hold much water in court to be honest which is why they have to say "Potentially". https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca2/22-1658/22-1658-2023-10-31.html Ripples reply brief because of this ruling allows Ripple to summarize the total "penalty/fees" should be closer to $10 million (instead of the SEC's demand for $2 Billion) Govil also allows Ripple to argue that there should be No injunction on ODL sales because no one was harmed and the SEC cant prove any harm. > until the big financial institutions get all their cards in order and use their own coin on their own rails This doesnt solve the same problem XRP solves. it simply would digitize the current problems.

CointestMod

#Bitcoin Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by a deleted user which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **First-Mover Advantage and The Network Effect** > > Bitcoin is currently the most popular cryptocurrency and market cap leader by a long shot. The [Bitcoin dominance chart](https://www.coingecko.com/en/global-charts) shows that Bitcoin represents 60% of the entire cryptocurrency market cap. This has increased from 40% in 2020. > > Bitcoin is the **gateway**. People start out with Bitcoin before checking out other cryptocurrencies. They're likely going to keep holding any Bitcoin they bought along the way. > > People will flock to whichever product has the largest user base. For half a decade, Bitcoin was almost synonymous with cryptocurrency. The Network Effect creates a **positive feedback loop** and makes Bitcoin's lead grow even more. > > If Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, and Litecoin were all released simultaneously, Bitcoin would lose to its PoW competitors because its competitors have cheaper fees with higher throughput. But the reality is that Bitcoin's first-mover advantage gave it such a huge head start that the others can't catch up. > > **Has the largest block reward for security** > > Due to its high price, Bitcoin has a huge [block reward of 6.5 BTC](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin/bitcoin-halving) (halves every 4 years) or ~$180k per block. This gives it the security lead because its block reward is so much bigger than other PoW cryptocurrencies, which attracts more miners. > > **Anti-censorship** > > Bitcoin provides partial censorship-resistance against sanctions and totalitarian government restrictions. It's much harder to prevent Bitcoin transactions than it is to prevent financial transactions at a centralized bank. [Legal sex workers](https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639356/onlyfans-ceo-tim-stokely-sexually-explicit-content-ban-banks) (e.g. Onlyfans) and [marijuana industries](https://www.leadingretirement.com/blog/cannabis-banking) are blocked from using traditional financial services due to social stigma. Even though they can operate legally, many TradFi banks avoid operating with them. Bitcoin provides those workers a way to transfer funds around that censorship. > > **Avoids Hyperinflation**: As long as governments keep causing high inflation through money-printing, people will run to Bitcoin for safety, which pumps up Bitcoin's price. > > **Considered a commodity by both SEC and CFTC**: Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency that both the SEC and CFTC have openly agreed is a commodity. And the CFTC is much less lawsuit-happy than the SEC. > > **Legal tender**: El Salvador has shown (despite some technical mishaps) that Bitcoin can be successfully used as legal tender for a country. > > **Ordinals provide utility** > > Even though Bitcoin Maxis hate Ordinals, this new protocol gives utility to Bitcoin and adds demand. NFT bros are using it as an **on-chain data storage layer** for their own blockchains (e.g. Ethereum, Stack). This has an advantage over IPFS since IPFS is stored in centralized databases instead of on-chain. > > This generates more fees for Bitcoin miners. Transaction fees have finally [risen to ~20 sats/vByte](https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool) on days with high Ordinals activity like Mar 22-24. This gives hope that there may be sufficient demand for Bitcoin as an on-chain data-storage layer even after the block subsidy eventually disappears due to halvings. > > **Pseudonymous**: Bitcoin's UTXO transactions can provide moderately-high levels of obscurity. A single wallet can produce a near-unlimited amount of addresses, and there's no way to link them unless they interact with each other. It's much harder to trace UTXO-based wallets than Account-based wallets because the former creates new UTXO addresses with each transaction while Account-based blockchain wallets typically reuse the same account. > > **Lightning transactions are near-instant and cheap** > > As long as you're spending small amounts of Bitcoin, you can use the Lightning network to make near-instant, sub-$0.01 transactions. Many Lightning nodes for merchants are connected to 3rd-party services that convert between cash and Lightning, making it easy to transfer Bitcoins. Consumers usually don't have to care about rebalancing issues since they're only spending small amounts. > > And the [total capacity of the Lightning Network](https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity) in BTC keeps increasing steadily. > > **Cannot be counterfeited**: Cash can be counterfeited, but you can't fake Lightning transactions. Merchants have to deal with counterfeit cash in many markets around the world. > > **Bitcoin has a very strong community of die-hard supporters** > > A huge portion of Bitcoin supporters have become Bitcoin Maxis who will keep spreading their arguments, regardless of accuracy. Because Bitcoin is a gateway cryptocurrency, crypto newbies will encounter it first and gobble up these narratives because they don't have the experience to know their flaws. And they're very convincing when you keep repeating them in an echo chamber: > > * Maximum supply cap of 21M BTC vs Fed's money printer > * Amazing past-performance gains vs fiat > * Works as Store of Value (despite volatility) > * Had a "fair launch" without an ICO > * Is not a risky altcoin > * Is decentralized (based on largest number of miners) > * Has instant payments via the Lightning Network > > **Ultimately, people are mainly using crypto for speculative investing and long-term Store of Value. Most people don't care about technology, Defi, or utility. Thus Bitcoin is sufficient for their investment needs.** > > And since cryptocurrency value is largely based on a Keynesian Beauty Contest (i.e. you buy not based on your own value, but on what you think others are going to buy), people are going to keep buying Bitcoin as long as the investment narrative holds. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7vq/top_coins_bitcoin_proarguments_january_2023/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Initial-Magazine2169

Lmao mate, someone will read this and go all in on XRP. Tbf, I actually feel bad for XRP holders because I think it actually has *some* credibility but it just can't shake the stink now after years in the doldrums. The whole SEC thing completely fucked it (along with other factors of course).

BroadProfessional755

Step 1. Download phantom on your phone. Step 2. Write down your seed phrase and save it in a safe place. Step 3. Buy some crypto by hitting the buy button in phantom. It will take you to moonpay. Step 4. Buy some solana and usdc. You need to leave a small amount of solana in your account to pay for swapping fees. Step 5. Link your wallet to Jupiter. It’s on the phantom app. You hit the globe on the bottom right of the screen. It will take you to the top sites. Hit the Jupiter site. Then connect your wallet. Step 6. Do your research before you buy a coin. Meme coins are mostly losers. I recommend investing in sol, and jup at first. HAMI is the only meme coin that I trust right now. Step 7. Wait for the market as a whole to crash. This happens every few weeks to months. Stuff like the federal reserve, the economy, war, the SEC, etc. will tank the market. Step 8. Have your usdc ie stable coin ready to swap to the coin that you want to invest in. Do this in the Jupiter network. Step 9. After the price of your coin goes up swap it back to usdc. Step 10. Repeat step 8 and 9 over and over and over. Step 11. When you want to cash out go to several different websites that offer different deals. Do no KYC to avoid paying taxes. I sell p2p in person. You can meet people locally in local crypto conventions or meet ups. You can also buy gold with crypto, or use a crypto atm. You have to see what is the best deal.

Big_Honey_56

It’s a whole bunch of bullshit. The SEC’s entire argument makes absolutely no sense if you have a solid understanding of the case law. Specifically, how can the underlying asset of an investment contract be the security? That’s never been the case. It can’t be the case. What’s important to understand about Howey is that it’s an analysis of the way something is sold, the “scheme.” It’s not the thing itself. Anything can be the subject of an investment contract. I can sell bottles of wine, gold bars, breeding beavers, etc. and if I sold them in a way that means the elements of Howey, then that sale would constitute an investment contract. But the wine, gold bars, beavers would not be securities. So XRP sold to institutional investors was of course an investment contract, however secondary sales, where you don’t even know who you’re really buying from, blind bid, cannot be an investment contract because there’s no common enterprise or expectation of profit. Rakoff is a highly respected judge, but I just can’t understand how he even entertained that ruling in Terraform. Some Judge just needs to stand up and say, wait you want people to register the underlying asset? What?

eburnside

Depends if it was an investment or not A USDT loss: definitely not deductible A BTC or ETH loss: potentially deductible depending on the circumstances A loss of ANY crypto that the SEC deems a security: deductible (because being a security means it's by definition an investment) Quote from the IRS guide in the theft section: "the personal-use property limitation for tax years 2018 through 2025 does not apply to losses on income producing property" [https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p547.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p547.pdf) (which is linked from the URL you provided)

imdabes

9.2 mill is a deal compared to all the lawsuits the SEC has slapped crypto MSB’s with. They’re getting off easy.

Ezio4Li

Cup and handle bullshit, we’ve heard all this sort of thing before and it’s right approximately 50% of the time. The BTC halving and the SEC will be the biggest influencers on the price of ETH.

wzi

Because they're two different independent Federal agencies, acting independently of each other, by their own respective charters and providence. From the perspective of the CFTC it's a commodity. From the perspective of the SEC it's a security. I agree it's stupid. Unfortunately since they're independent agencies it would require Congressional intervention to force a common definition. It isn't something the President would be able to do unilaterally via executive authority.

imdabes

What makes me even angrier is that I’d like to just move it all into crypto to protect it from those sticky fingered assholes on wallstreet. ….but the gov. Is making it really fuckin hard and scary to do so with all the stunts they’ve been pulling with the SEC, the treasury dept., and the IRS. It’s like “your gonna let us steal from you one way or the other” and THAT infuriates me.

SuccotashComplete

That’s something I’ve never understood from the SEC. Why are they dragging their feet **so** much on anything crypto related? Maybe it delays things for 6-12 months but it’s obliterating their credibility

SuccotashComplete

Just wait until someone hacks the SEC’s Twitter again and announces that etherium is a currency

graphyguy

The SEC is wrong. The SEC should lose in court. That does not mean that the SEC will lose in court.

cryptolipto

They’ll lose in court. The SEC is on the wrong side of this argument.

root88

I know exactly how it works. You can bitch at me all you want. I'm explaining to you why this is going to court. The CFTC thinks it is a commodity. The SEC thinks it is a security. They are battling over it.

siviconta

SEC will reject the ETF. But there will bu lwasuit they will eventually accept it.

Cronus_k98

ETH is a commodity regulated by the CFTC, not the SEC. What authority does the SEC have to make that change? Also, you don't seem to understand how staking ETH works. Holding ETH doesn't produce any staking rewards, you need to run a validator to potentially earn ETH by validating a block. You are the one doing the work, not others.

Objective_Digit

CFTC is nit the SEC. Saylor could buy Ethereum and shill that also like everyone else. Why doesn't he?

dubski04021

From the Bitcoin maxi himself lol The SEC has extremely loose and undefined reasons to classify ETH as a security. Anyone want to make a bet?

Alea_Iacta_Est21

SEC enters the room. FBI enters the room. DOJ enters the room…. did I forget anyone?

noncognitive

> It can't be both a commodity and a security at the same time Agreed. Meanwhile Gensler has tried arguing that it can be both. We need a new head of the SEC. One who has a backbone.

LevitatingTurtles

Oh they will get it… I’m sure of it but the SEC will try.

LevitatingTurtles

The SEC will make the 'safe' decision and deny it. They will be sued and they will lose. They will not appeal (like they didn't appeal the BTC ETF ruling) Then they can say "not my fault... the courts made me do it" Regulation through litigation. So brave.

Oheson

If the SEC classifies ETH as a security, the entire Alt market will collapse. That will mean that all PoS Alts are securities. Eventually, they can operate as securities but not without years of pain to get all that put in place.

Cronus_k98

It can't be both a commodity and a security at the same time. So, if it was a commodity before, how can you convert it into a security? What authority does the SEC have to make that change? There's no precedent for that happening that I'm aware of.

coinsRus-2021

Yeah cause Elizabeth Warren among others was pissed as hell at the SEC decision. They wanted him going down to the final breath with Bitcoin

Frequent-Jacket3117

CFTC declared ETH a commodity long time ago. Just recently, they once more reaffirmed their position." - [link](https://www.theblock.co/post/284856/cftc-ether-is-commodity-kucoin-lawsuit) If Gensler declares it security it means he is getting in conflict with CFTC and going against them. Even more, there are old videos of him, before getting the SEC job, where he is saying that ETH is not a security. On top of that Coinbase said in Twitter that if this happens they gonna sue SEC straight away. Gensler doesn't want another case lost and getting humiliated again, and this case is harder for him to win than the XRP one. Saylor is Bitcoin maxi so I expect nothing less of him.

coachhunter2

And wait until the SEC do a thorough investigation of Consensys and the Ethereum folks and find all kinds of shit

satoshiwife

He thinks the SEC will reject BlackRock's ETF? BTC Maxis are so ignorant

imdabes

“I’m confident it will never happen.” It’s happening. Americans are banned from using 4 of the top 5 exchanges in the world. The gov. is actively and aggressively attacking self-custody and defi. The SEC has or is in the process of suing the biggest names in the business. The FBI issued a threat against using p2p. All privacy tools for use with bitcoin have been banned. TLDR: the only bitcoin that isn’t banned for US holders is the Bitcoin the government can track and control. “They aren’t selling anytime soon” They are. They auction off Bitcoin they seize. ETFs controlled by wallstreet asset managers misses the entire point of Bitcoin. Not your keys, not your coin. The etf approval is not equal to an approval of self sovereign use of Bitcoin. It is only an approval of wallstreet and the very shit Bitcoin was created as an alternative to.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Michael Saylor predicts that the SEC will classify Ethereum (ETH) as a security and reject all spot Ethereum ETF applications. He also expects similar security classifications for other major cryptocurrencies like Binance Coin, Solana, Ripple, and Cardano. Saylor emphasized Bitcoin's unique status as the only crypto asset fully accepted by institutional investors, contrasting it with other cryptocurrencies which he believes will not gain such acceptance or be wrapped by a spot ETF. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

MiceAreTiny

They can ban and will ban, and can enforce a ban on unbacked securities, which is 99% of all crypto out there. They can not ban the code, but they can ban the ones that are running the servers and are essentially governing it, at least within the jurisdiction of the respective government. They absolutely can not enforce any ban they think they could implement over bitcoin. For starters, bitcoin is decentralized, it does not answer to the US government, they can not force it to shut down either. They could ban certain use cases for their citizens, but as "owning bitcoin" is the same as "knowing a number" I am looking forward to how they are going to try to ban that. They can force mainstream financial institution to not work with bitcoin, but after the SEC's ETF approval, that is increasingly unlikely.

CointestMod

#Bitcoin Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by a deleted user which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **First-Mover Advantage and The Network Effect** > > Bitcoin is currently the most popular cryptocurrency and market cap leader by a long shot. The [Bitcoin dominance chart](https://www.coingecko.com/en/global-charts) shows that Bitcoin represents 60% of the entire cryptocurrency market cap. This has increased from 40% in 2020. > > Bitcoin is the **gateway**. People start out with Bitcoin before checking out other cryptocurrencies. They're likely going to keep holding any Bitcoin they bought along the way. > > People will flock to whichever product has the largest user base. For half a decade, Bitcoin was almost synonymous with cryptocurrency. The Network Effect creates a **positive feedback loop** and makes Bitcoin's lead grow even more. > > If Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, and Litecoin were all released simultaneously, Bitcoin would lose to its PoW competitors because its competitors have cheaper fees with higher throughput. But the reality is that Bitcoin's first-mover advantage gave it such a huge head start that the others can't catch up. > > **Has the largest block reward for security** > > Due to its high price, Bitcoin has a huge [block reward of 6.5 BTC](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin/bitcoin-halving) (halves every 4 years) or ~$180k per block. This gives it the security lead because its block reward is so much bigger than other PoW cryptocurrencies, which attracts more miners. > > **Anti-censorship** > > Bitcoin provides partial censorship-resistance against sanctions and totalitarian government restrictions. It's much harder to prevent Bitcoin transactions than it is to prevent financial transactions at a centralized bank. [Legal sex workers](https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639356/onlyfans-ceo-tim-stokely-sexually-explicit-content-ban-banks) (e.g. Onlyfans) and [marijuana industries](https://www.leadingretirement.com/blog/cannabis-banking) are blocked from using traditional financial services due to social stigma. Even though they can operate legally, many TradFi banks avoid operating with them. Bitcoin provides those workers a way to transfer funds around that censorship. > > **Avoids Hyperinflation**: As long as governments keep causing high inflation through money-printing, people will run to Bitcoin for safety, which pumps up Bitcoin's price. > > **Considered a commodity by both SEC and CFTC**: Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency that both the SEC and CFTC have openly agreed is a commodity. And the CFTC is much less lawsuit-happy than the SEC. > > **Legal tender**: El Salvador has shown (despite some technical mishaps) that Bitcoin can be successfully used as legal tender for a country. > > **Ordinals provide utility** > > Even though Bitcoin Maxis hate Ordinals, this new protocol gives utility to Bitcoin and adds demand. NFT bros are using it as an **on-chain data storage layer** for their own blockchains (e.g. Ethereum, Stack). This has an advantage over IPFS since IPFS is stored in centralized databases instead of on-chain. > > This generates more fees for Bitcoin miners. Transaction fees have finally [risen to ~20 sats/vByte](https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool) on days with high Ordinals activity like Mar 22-24. This gives hope that there may be sufficient demand for Bitcoin as an on-chain data-storage layer even after the block subsidy eventually disappears due to halvings. > > **Pseudonymous**: Bitcoin's UTXO transactions can provide moderately-high levels of obscurity. A single wallet can produce a near-unlimited amount of addresses, and there's no way to link them unless they interact with each other. It's much harder to trace UTXO-based wallets than Account-based wallets because the former creates new UTXO addresses with each transaction while Account-based blockchain wallets typically reuse the same account. > > **Lightning transactions are near-instant and cheap** > > As long as you're spending small amounts of Bitcoin, you can use the Lightning network to make near-instant, sub-$0.01 transactions. Many Lightning nodes for merchants are connected to 3rd-party services that convert between cash and Lightning, making it easy to transfer Bitcoins. Consumers usually don't have to care about rebalancing issues since they're only spending small amounts. > > And the [total capacity of the Lightning Network](https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity) in BTC keeps increasing steadily. > > **Cannot be counterfeited**: Cash can be counterfeited, but you can't fake Lightning transactions. Merchants have to deal with counterfeit cash in many markets around the world. > > **Bitcoin has a very strong community of die-hard supporters** > > A huge portion of Bitcoin supporters have become Bitcoin Maxis who will keep spreading their arguments, regardless of accuracy. Because Bitcoin is a gateway cryptocurrency, crypto newbies will encounter it first and gobble up these narratives because they don't have the experience to know their flaws. And they're very convincing when you keep repeating them in an echo chamber: > > * Maximum supply cap of 21M BTC vs Fed's money printer > * Amazing past-performance gains vs fiat > * Works as Store of Value (despite volatility) > * Had a "fair launch" without an ICO > * Is not a risky altcoin > * Is decentralized (based on largest number of miners) > * Has instant payments via the Lightning Network > > **Ultimately, people are mainly using crypto for speculative investing and long-term Store of Value. Most people don't care about technology, Defi, or utility. Thus Bitcoin is sufficient for their investment needs.** > > And since cryptocurrency value is largely based on a Keynesian Beauty Contest (i.e. you buy not based on your own value, but on what you think others are going to buy), people are going to keep buying Bitcoin as long as the investment narrative holds. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7vq/top_coins_bitcoin_proarguments_january_2023/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Secure-Rich3501

And yet they will continue to vote Democrat and Democrats are the biggest enemies of crypto... There's a long list of pro crypto people in Congress... Only one that I can think of it is a Democrat, Gillibrand The two that voted against Bitcoin ETFs at the SEC are Democrats Looking at nut bag Elizabeth Warren... Gary Gensler is a Democrat

boringtired

“Unreliable Source” Read the SEC lawsuit you troglodyte. They’ve been doing this shit for YEARS. This is how Ripple makes their MONEY. They sell XRP in bulk to “investors” at a HEAVY discount that is a far cry from the open market price. The “investors” then dump it on the CEXs. This. Shit. Has. Been. Going. On. For. Literally. Almost. A. Decade. It’s one of the reasons the SEC keyed in on them from the get go. But it’s not illegal! Read the lawsuit. How do you think Ripple (the company) keeps the lights on or pays their employees? Could you tell me what product they are selling to people? Who’s using their “cross border solutions”? How much do they pay them? Answer: they ain’t making shit off anything but dumping XRP in bulk. Oh and heaven forbid you look up Chris Larsen’s history, just fucking icing on the cake at this point.

Sharlach

This is just clickbait. The article doesn't mention anything new, just the same enforcement actions from the SEC everyone knows about, and one guys very obviously partisan opinion.

Economy_Appearance72

Dot has worked with the SEC to not be a security too

Apprehensive_Sun7382

All I see is SEC allegations which means nothing and a reddit thread from 9 months ago telling people to stay away from TRON (it's up 78% since then). You just hate him for no reason cause reddit told you to.

HolidayAnything8687

Basically pioneered wash trading, SEC crypto fraud charges, manipulates his own market, plagiarized white paper, countless lies and fake partnerships worth billions, ripped off FTX losers after claiming to bail them out, “buy my shitcoin”.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Pantera Capital, managing over $5 billion in assets, has invested in The Open Network (TON), a layer 1 blockchain. This investment reflects Pantera's confidence in TON's potential to expand crypto adoption via Telegram's vast user base. TON, initially developed by Telegram and rebranded after legal issues with the SEC, has evolved into a significant web3 ecosystem. It now supports revenue sharing with channel owners and facilitates advertising payments in TON. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Informal-Extent9764

Aliens could land tmrw, Russia might nuke Ukraine in a week and everything goes to shits! Anything's possible! But, when you're trading, you better have a gameplan, otherwise you'll lose your shit real fast. The best gameplan for long term so far has proven to be projecting past cycles onto the future while also allowing for variations in timelines, volatility etc. GamePlan 1. Don't go all in. Assume that black swans are possible and it could all go to shits. Invest amounts you're willing to lose! 2. Once that's established, if you're still in, assume that the bull market is not over since this is still in line with previous cycles. 20-30% dips are nothing in crypto. If you still have ammo left, buy the dip. If you're losing your shit rn, then you're not cut out to play in this market. 3. Have a clear exit plan. Mine is to start selling (slowly) once it passes 90k. In my experience those who get rekt are, 1. retailers who are new and buy the hype. 2. Those who are very arrogant thinking they can time the market or that they somehow know or understand something others don't. Those are usually the ones who do margin trades and get rekt real fast. Then they become bitter and start shitting on crypto. This market requires patience, requires humility. You can't outsmart this market, that said this market is not your enemy and is not out to get you as long as you respect it and respect the long-term cyclical nature of it. Fundamentals vs Technicals: The most fundamental thing in this market is that Blockchain technology and crypto is not going anywhere. 16 years in the bitcoin has not been hacked despite it's $1 trillion market cap. This technology is in line with printing press, internet, etc. The genie is already out the bottle. You can't put it back in. This one fundamental trumps all other fundamentals. Mt Goxs, China ban, FTX and other exchanges/funds going down, SEC hostility - just to name a few. In the grand scheme, all of these events were just a small bump in the road. The reality is that Bitcoin is ANTI-FRAGILE. The more stuff you throw at it, the stronger it gets. This is the most important fundamental. Which means IN THE LONG RUN BITCOIN IS GOING UP (disclaimer: unless aliens land or we nuke each other to stone age). That said don't try to time this market or you'll get rekt.

Blooberino

It's OK if people gamble at the casino. The casinos provide kickbacks to the SEC. It's all theatrics.

Financial_Design_801

Hong Kong fund Yong Rong is the biggest bitcoin ETF holder yet, per SEC filings today. They have $38m in Blackrock's IBIT. That's 10% of their US holdings, and double the next biggest holder. https://twitter.com/julian__fahrer/status/1786050882540535853?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA Update on Day 1 Hong Kong Bitcoin ETF Total Inflow: $+248 million ChinaAMC inflows $+124 million Harvest inflows $+63 million Bosera-Hashkey inflows $+61 million https://twitter.com/ericbalchunas/status/1786035915040674061?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA

Financial_Design_801

Hong Kong fund Yong Rong is the biggest bitcoin ETF holder yet, per SEC filings today. They have $38m in Blackrock's IBIT. That's 10% of their US holdings, and double the next biggest holder. https://twitter.com/julian__fahrer/status/1786050882540535853?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA Update on Day 1 Hong Kong Bitcoin ETF Total Inflow: $+248 million ChinaAMC inflows $+124 million Harvest inflows $+63 million Bosera-Hashkey inflows $+61 million https://twitter.com/ericbalchunas/status/1786035915040674061?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA

advias

Confirming this is a troll / AI training / anti crypto post >I dunno I mean, can’t the SEC do anything?! Just seems ridiculous really now No one is this stupid

YogSothothIsTheKey

I want to say thank you to CZ,he protect Binance users funds for real,safu wasnt a lie.Thats a big difference with SBF and FTX.Theres no innocent in this sector I think,probably any or almost all the Ceo of exchanges,brokers,market makers,hedge funds etc etc have dirty hands,but at least we can absolutely say with proud CZ WORK GOOD.He open the first bigger crypto exchange in the world,bringing on board millions of people in this sector.He dismiss and delete his stablecoin BUSD without users loss their money,doing gradually without a depeg after the law problems with SEC.He protect users money in general quitting his job and collaborating with the US government about his lawsuit of money laundering.He wasnt forced to go to US,he's not an american citizen,but he know that choice was bad for Binance so he didnt escape or other shit.So thank you CZ for all what you did to improve our communty and all good work.Good job,we well see to the moon!

CointestMod

#Bitcoin Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by a deleted user which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **First-Mover Advantage and The Network Effect** > > Bitcoin is currently the most popular cryptocurrency and market cap leader by a long shot. The [Bitcoin dominance chart](https://www.coingecko.com/en/global-charts) shows that Bitcoin represents 60% of the entire cryptocurrency market cap. This has increased from 40% in 2020. > > Bitcoin is the **gateway**. People start out with Bitcoin before checking out other cryptocurrencies. They're likely going to keep holding any Bitcoin they bought along the way. > > People will flock to whichever product has the largest user base. For half a decade, Bitcoin was almost synonymous with cryptocurrency. The Network Effect creates a **positive feedback loop** and makes Bitcoin's lead grow even more. > > If Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, and Litecoin were all released simultaneously, Bitcoin would lose to its PoW competitors because its competitors have cheaper fees with higher throughput. But the reality is that Bitcoin's first-mover advantage gave it such a huge head start that the others can't catch up. > > **Has the largest block reward for security** > > Due to its high price, Bitcoin has a huge [block reward of 6.5 BTC](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/bitcoin/bitcoin-halving) (halves every 4 years) or ~$180k per block. This gives it the security lead because its block reward is so much bigger than other PoW cryptocurrencies, which attracts more miners. > > **Anti-censorship** > > Bitcoin provides partial censorship-resistance against sanctions and totalitarian government restrictions. It's much harder to prevent Bitcoin transactions than it is to prevent financial transactions at a centralized bank. [Legal sex workers](https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639356/onlyfans-ceo-tim-stokely-sexually-explicit-content-ban-banks) (e.g. Onlyfans) and [marijuana industries](https://www.leadingretirement.com/blog/cannabis-banking) are blocked from using traditional financial services due to social stigma. Even though they can operate legally, many TradFi banks avoid operating with them. Bitcoin provides those workers a way to transfer funds around that censorship. > > **Avoids Hyperinflation**: As long as governments keep causing high inflation through money-printing, people will run to Bitcoin for safety, which pumps up Bitcoin's price. > > **Considered a commodity by both SEC and CFTC**: Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency that both the SEC and CFTC have openly agreed is a commodity. And the CFTC is much less lawsuit-happy than the SEC. > > **Legal tender**: El Salvador has shown (despite some technical mishaps) that Bitcoin can be successfully used as legal tender for a country. > > **Ordinals provide utility** > > Even though Bitcoin Maxis hate Ordinals, this new protocol gives utility to Bitcoin and adds demand. NFT bros are using it as an **on-chain data storage layer** for their own blockchains (e.g. Ethereum, Stack). This has an advantage over IPFS since IPFS is stored in centralized databases instead of on-chain. > > This generates more fees for Bitcoin miners. Transaction fees have finally [risen to ~20 sats/vByte](https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool) on days with high Ordinals activity like Mar 22-24. This gives hope that there may be sufficient demand for Bitcoin as an on-chain data-storage layer even after the block subsidy eventually disappears due to halvings. > > **Pseudonymous**: Bitcoin's UTXO transactions can provide moderately-high levels of obscurity. A single wallet can produce a near-unlimited amount of addresses, and there's no way to link them unless they interact with each other. It's much harder to trace UTXO-based wallets than Account-based wallets because the former creates new UTXO addresses with each transaction while Account-based blockchain wallets typically reuse the same account. > > **Lightning transactions are near-instant and cheap** > > As long as you're spending small amounts of Bitcoin, you can use the Lightning network to make near-instant, sub-$0.01 transactions. Many Lightning nodes for merchants are connected to 3rd-party services that convert between cash and Lightning, making it easy to transfer Bitcoins. Consumers usually don't have to care about rebalancing issues since they're only spending small amounts. > > And the [total capacity of the Lightning Network](https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity) in BTC keeps increasing steadily. > > **Cannot be counterfeited**: Cash can be counterfeited, but you can't fake Lightning transactions. Merchants have to deal with counterfeit cash in many markets around the world. > > **Bitcoin has a very strong community of die-hard supporters** > > A huge portion of Bitcoin supporters have become Bitcoin Maxis who will keep spreading their arguments, regardless of accuracy. Because Bitcoin is a gateway cryptocurrency, crypto newbies will encounter it first and gobble up these narratives because they don't have the experience to know their flaws. And they're very convincing when you keep repeating them in an echo chamber: > > * Maximum supply cap of 21M BTC vs Fed's money printer > * Amazing past-performance gains vs fiat > * Works as Store of Value (despite volatility) > * Had a "fair launch" without an ICO > * Is not a risky altcoin > * Is decentralized (based on largest number of miners) > * Has instant payments via the Lightning Network > > **Ultimately, people are mainly using crypto for speculative investing and long-term Store of Value. Most people don't care about technology, Defi, or utility. Thus Bitcoin is sufficient for their investment needs.** > > And since cryptocurrency value is largely based on a Keynesian Beauty Contest (i.e. you buy not based on your own value, but on what you think others are going to buy), people are going to keep buying Bitcoin as long as the investment narrative holds. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7vq/top_coins_bitcoin_proarguments_january_2023/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is a Algorand pro-argument written by CreepToeCurrentSea. > Algorand is an open-source, decentralized cryptocurrency and smart contract platform founded by Silvio Micali on 2017. It operates through a Proof of Stake variation called the Pure Proof of Stake. It officially launched it's main network on 2019. It's native token is called ALGO. Algorand is composed of a company and a foundation. The company functions on the core development of the protocol whereas the foundation oversees award funding, cryptographic research, on-chain governance, and decentralization of the Algorand network including nodes. > > # PROs > > **The Founders** > > * The creators/founders of a network/protocol are one of the most important factors influencing its future. The more experience they have in the field, the more likely a project will succeed. Enter Algorand's founders, Silvio Micali and Jing Chen. Micali is an Italian computer scientist and professor at MIT. He is best known for his early work on public-key cryptosystems, pseudorandom functions, digital signatures, oblivious transfer, secure multiparty computation, and is one of the co-inventors of zero-knowledge proofs. Chen is Algorand Inc.'s Chief Scientist and Head of Theory Research. Game theory, mechanism design, distributed ledgers, smart contracts, and algorithms are among her research interests. She is a member of the Computer Science Department at Stony Brook University. She is also associated with the Department of Economics and the Center for Game Theory in Economics. This is just a summary of their experiences, and it demonstrates how serious they are about finding a solution to the blockchain trillemma while also improving the Algorand protocol's unique strengths. > > **The Protocol** > > * As indicated previously in the introduction, Algorand employs PPoS, a variant of the PoS algorithm in which validators of the network are not rewarded and are not at risk of being slashed. It becomes hard for the minority to cheat, and cheating the system would be illogical for the majority because it would devalue their assets. There is also no token locking, thus a user's tokens are always available. Based on this rationale, regardless of the amount of alleged bad actors in the system, it would result in a loss for them while keeping the network safe. > > **Security** > > * Security is essential for a network to run efficiently, safeguard digital assets, and build confidence with other companies/entities. Without this, a network will eventually fail or, worse, be hacked. Algorand divides security into three levels: user security, consensus security, and partition security. > * User-Level Security is primarily concerned with the security of a user's stake. Users will be given a spending key as well as a participation key. The Spending key will be used to sign transactions and spend stakes, whilst the Participation key will be used to propose and confirm blocks. Both these keys are separated with the Participation key being secret and can be stored in cold storage. > * Consensus-Level Security focuses on preventing bad actors from corrupting the network by seizing control of block generation. This is accomplished through the secret and random selection of users to participate in the certification of blocks. The bad actor will be unable to determine which user will generate the block, and by the time the bad actor does, the action will have already been completed. > * Partition-Level Security increases resistance to network partition attacks. The goal of bad actors who do this is to double-spend their money in the network by creating a contradiction of transactions, completely asynchronous the network, and have complete control over who receives which messages and when. This does not happen in the Algorand network because the bad actor cannot deceive the users in the same round with this strategy because the Algorand blockchain will never fork, and all transactions in the network are final. > > **Scalability** > > * Algorand utilises Pure Proof of Stake (PPoS) consensus, in which network validators are not rewarded and are not at risk of being slashed. In contrast to Bitcoin's Proof of Work model, it will not require network participants solving cryptographic puzzles for the production/validation of blocks, resulting in less computation waste. A user only needs to generate and verify signatures and count operations, with the cost based solely on the number of selected users for each block, which is constant and unaffected by the overall network size. As a result, the network would be able to serve millions of users while maintaining a higher TPS and lower computation cost. > > > **Crypto Rating** > > * Algorand received a 2 out of 5 rating from the Crypto Rating Council (CRC) in its Securities Framework Asset Ratings. When an asset appears to have many characteristics that are consistent with the Howey-test factors, it receives a score of 5. When an asset appears to have few characteristics that are consistent with the Howey-test factors, it receives a score of 1. Based on this rating, the SEC will be less likely to rule Algorand as a security. It also helps that both the foundation and the company, Algorand, are committed to decentralized development. > > *Sources:* > [*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorand*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorand) > [*https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.1607.01341*](https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.1607.01341) > [*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio\_Micali*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Micali) > [*https://www3.cs.stonybrook.edu\/\~jingchen/*](https://www3.cs.stonybrook.edu\/~jingchen/) > [*https://www.algorand.com/technology/technical-advantages*](https://www.algorand.com/technology/technical-advantages) > [*https://messari.io/asset/algorand/profile/technology*](https://messari.io/asset/algorand/profile/technology) > [*https://www.algorand.com/technology/security*](https://www.algorand.com/technology/security) > [*https://www.algorand.com/technology/scalability*](https://www.algorand.com/technology/scalability) > [*https://www.cryptoratingcouncil.com/asset-ratings*](https://www.cryptoratingcouncil.com/asset-ratings) ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find submissions for other topics.

porpoisebuilt2

SEC to SUK COK ok?

Dinkledorker

Leveraged ETF'S Not only pose more risk but also poses more volatility. People will get rekt trading them and will lose interest. This stops growth of a project. Which is their endgoal. By now it's clear that the SEC wants crypto to die out. Although they cant

conceiv3d-in-lib3rty

By approving leveraged ETH futures ETFs, the SEC will just be creating more confusion with even less clarity overall due to the fact that doing is essentially them accepting the CFTC’s classification of ETH as a commodity, all while having a pending investigation into whether it is a security… And then there’s also the fact that futures, for an asset they aren’t even sure how to classify, obviously pose more of a risk to investor funds than spot offerings, but the entire point of the SEC is supposed to be to protect investors… Make it make sense, please? This is at least gross incompetence at best or something a lot more sinister at worst.

SurprisedByItAll

Can the SEC come across any less competent?

John_Crypto_Rambo

Contact the SEC here. https://www.investor.gov/contact-us They can help sometimes.   https://www.sec.gov/files/litigation/admin/2020/33-10865.pdf

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The SEC is likely to approve leveraged ETH futures ETFs despite an ongoing investigation into whether Ethereum is an unregistered security. This decision comes amidst confusion over the SEC's classification of Ethereum, as it simultaneously delays decisions on spot Ethereum ETFs. The approval of leveraged ETFs, which are seen as riskier, contrasts with the SEC's cautious approach to spot ETFs, adding to the complexity of the situation regarding Ethereum's regulatory status. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

NivekIyak

The SEC only goes after projects / companies that try their best to be compliant with rules that don’t exist yet. Everything else that’s an obvious scam / easy investigation doesn’t interest them.

NivekIyak

The SEC only goes after projects / companies that try their best to be compliant with rules that don’t exist yet. Everything else that’s an obvious scam / easy investigation doesn’t interest them.

OderWieOderWatJunge

Crypto: Fuck the SEC, they want to regulate and destroy crypto! 😠 Crypto, a few months later: I'm being scammend, please help me SEC 😥

el_reza

SEC? I doubt then can return your money. What you can do is to take people who took your money to the civil court. Ofcoz if you know their names. And if the judge will decide that they should return you the money their assets can be frozen etc.

Marie848484

I dunno I mean, can’t the SEC do anything?! Just seems ridiculous really now

CointestMod

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by lj26ft which won 3rd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Ethereum is being shown favoritism and privilege by US regulators. This is the biggest con for Ethereum. Early promoters of Ethereum approached and worked closely with the SEC to shield it from any securities laws. The arguments used by the SEC in the Ripple case can be more easily applied to Ethereum. > > Why does Ethereum get a free pass from creating a securities offering? Because Joe Lubin started the Brooklyn project before Ethereum even launched. There's multiple threads on this very sub that shows they sold it to more than just developers. I find the hypocrisy and corruption to be the biggest con argument for Ethereum. It's being chosen by the incumbent system as the only standard for web3 so far. I don't think Ethereum would be as highly valued or trusted if it didn't have carte blanche on illegal fundraising/ hosting tens of thousands of illegal securities offerings. > > The market needs to be a level playing field and right now it's heavily tilted towards Ethereum because of financial interests of early promoters, conflicts of interests from US regulators and their financial interests in Ethereum. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/vpuid7/top_coins_ethereum_conarguments_july_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1chhhy4/monthly_optimists_discussion_may_2024/).

BoomerGenXMillGenZ

1. This is not good for the market 2. I'd bet a large number of the people cackling about buying now, aren't buying and won't buy. I can't stand that phony bravado 3. We still don't have transformative use cases at scale outside Bitcoin 4. This is a dangerous moment where the SEC can throttle the market outside of BTC 5. Hope I'm wrong but this feels different and bad

Rozie1970

Alot of factors are affecting this cycle so it's not your typical historical based rally. Lawsuits by SEC, regulations and sanctions, ETF intro, the economy, politics, break down to the feds making a decision on rates today all goes in to the stock market which the crypto market follows close behind. I expect a longer rise to all time highs 18 to 24 months HODL and by the dip

olduvai_man

SEC FUD has been around for years and it never materializes to the downside.

BoomerGenXMillGenZ

I mean, what if trading is based on the rational fear that the SEC could be making moves that will seriously and negatively impact crypto overall?

BoomerGenXMillGenZ

I'm not selling, I'm mostly Eth with some Btc, I've been holding since 2017... But this doesn't feel good right now. I mean near and medium term doesn't feel good. The SEC seems about to put a serious hurt on the market wrt Eth. And I don't really like empty bravado; if the SEC calls Eth a security, the market is likely to be really rough for the foreseeable future.

The_Dude_2U

There are plenty of variables but saying that Covid alone affected supply and demand, as well as FOMO, is short sighted. Of all the variables, peaks and valleys, new ETF hands in, unforeseen SEC squabbling, etc… the only consistent trend I’ve seen historically is the post halving bull run typically in 12-18 months. It has happened with the last 3 halvings so we have 12 years of data. Rough price points based on data: December 2012 halving, price was $12. January 2014, price was $808. July 2016 halving, $670. January 2018 price, $17,000. May 2020 halving, $870. April and October 2021 $60,000+. That’s 12 years of verifiable data. You can downvote the factual data, but the history is clear. If you can explain the previous 3 halving peaks based on economic data, I’d be interested to know what you find. It certainly wasn’t Covid related.

someoneSomewhere2973

News from like 2 days ago was "Australian SEC could approve..." or am I missing something?

One_Boot_5662

I think the problem here is that genuine crypto isn't a security. Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano, Algorand etc. were not created as investments for degens to get rich quick, there is no need for investment to *use* any of them. Dogwifhat is almost certainly a security, it's only reason to exist is for people to invest in to sell later for a profit. What the SEC are doing is trying to say, because some people use Ethereum as an investment vehicle, then it's an investment and that's a security; but that's not what Ethereum actually is. Gold is not a security, investment in a gold mine is.

Boring-Test5522

only BTC is decentralized according to SEC. ETH is even a security now.

The_Realist01

Bro they have a management team implementing strategy and changes to the protocol and 70% was acquired through an ICO. Then there’s the entire staking issue, which is murky at best and likely a bonafide security at worst. Just have the ETH foundation pay the SEC fine and move on so it’s not an issue anymore (while also fulfilling SEC mandatory filings, ya, maybe not the best route).

Individual2020

Bitcoin isn’t in charge of its own price discovery. That is done elsewhere, which can mostly be captured and controlled. It’s an obvious attack vector, but it really depends on who has the monopoly on global finance. If that breaks down, then the game is afoot. But most power structures want to protect their fiat and will do anything to stop capital flight. In terms of Bitcoin, capital flight is simply buying it directly, so that’s why most countries are turning against it, and offer these fake paper Bitcoin derivatives to corral the fomo into, to keep the capital in the fiat world (and of course, we are to trust that they are buying Bitcoin 1:1 and the SEC is surely enforcing those rules, cough cough.)

legbreaker

While all true, none of this is the definition of a security. For example it is pretty clear that newly generated ETH received as staking rewards should not be classified as a security. However, the ETH initially sold during Ethereum's Initial Coin Offering (ICO) had characteristics more closely resembling a security offering. The ICO likely should have been conducted under the oversight and regulation of the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). It's important to note that classifying the ETH sold in the ICO as a security does not automatically make all ETH a security. The nature of ETH can vary depending on the context and the specific transaction or activity involved. Securities classification is not always a binary, all-or-nothing proposition. There can be nuanced situations where an asset is considered a security in certain contexts or when used for specific functions, but not in others. In the case of ETH, while the ICO issuance might be viewed as a securities offering, subsequent transactions or uses of ETH, such as using it to pay for goods and services or receiving it as a reward for staking, may not necessarily fall under the same classification.

spooky_corners

Never had an issue with River. Being a Bitcoin only exchange, it actually seems safer than many of the other coin-casino exchanges out there. Heads up though. With the SEC on the warpath, institutions are becoming VERY risk off with anything that even looks like it could potentially set off AML red flags. I try to keep my transactions numerous and small, and that helps. $5k probably spooked some algorithm and triggered an inquiry. I would expect more of this kind of thing happening around Bitcoin/crypto on and off-ramps in the near term future.