DEFI

Crypto-4-Freedom

I started out following different subs, like ethtrader, cc , defi, etc just read into posts/tutorials/discussions, ask questions(like you are doing right now) Im reading as well books about crypto, stuff like : the Bitcoin standard, DeFi and the future of finance(i recommend this book!), DEFI after Bitcoin & Ethereum, etc. If you search on youtube, avoid the shillers, only watch the video's that explain what a protocol does. If you start out in DeFi revoke.cash and defillama are your best friends, and i would recommend to use RabyWallet instead of MetaMask.

coojw

You don't need to sell btc. Hold it forever. (But, but, how do you get your value out of it) Glad you asked. BTC is money. And its the Alpha asset. From a theoretic standpoint, you never want to sell the best asset on earth. Ever, you hold it and it keeps bringing you value. From a functional standpoint, you can use your btc like ceo's use stocks to extract value. You leverage small amounts of it as you build your wealth and you live off of that. You should shoot for 5% to 15% leverage of your stack to support your lifestyle. Look at how much it costs for you to live. Is it $100K per year? What 5%, 10%, or 15% of what number equals $100K? 2Mil for 5% / 1M for 10% / 666k for 15%. So if you use bitcoin as a savings, it will grow over the long term both as you add to it and as it appreciates. What you put in there will grow substantially by the end of this bull cycle, and by the end of next bull cycle 4 years from now, it will be much more. By that time, traditional finance will likely have the tools in place to allow leverage against your BTC, and you can start employing your strategy. If you are a degen, DEFI already has borrowing against your BTC available via smart contracts. This strategy is what CEO's and the wealth use to leverage their assets but never sell them. This topic is covered at length in many places, you can look it up by searching "Buy, borrow, die" strategy. Or watch this clip of Michael Saylor talking about it: [https://youtu.be/QXh\_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373](https://youtu.be/QXh_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373)

Odd-Helicopter2201

but the base value of each token is based off solana " solana can be based of USDC, USDT etc.. solana is DEFI the shitcoins are clandestin entities accessing the system in an unfavorable way.

kilo6ronen

Did they miss the decentralized part of the word DEFI.. good luck US government 😂 Pandora’s box has been opened

coojw

We are accustomed to human intermediaries. Whether that be banks, or other financial institutions that lend money to the populous for profit. Humans have biases, emotions which encompass, greed and fear and other motivations. As result, third parties can never be truly trusted. DEFI solves this by making use of smart contracts which are basically algorithms that make all the decisions and do all the work/logistics in the transaction. These algorithms are public and verifiable so everyone is able to see what it does before interacting with it. In this way, users can be sure that no malicious code is at work. This enables the users to put up collateral and take out loan without the need for kyc verifications, credit score verifications, applications and so on. All that is required is that you have the capital to deposit into the smart contract. Once it is deposited, you can withdraw your loan instantly. If the DEFI platform says that it will loan you money against your assets at a 75% loan to value, then if you deposit $100,000 worth of bitcoin, then you can withdraw to $75,000 worth of loaned funds. It’s just important to understand that if you go over your 75% loan to value, you will be liquidated and lose money to pay back the loan automatically. Remember, this is all done by computer code, and there’s no one to plead with to give you a chance. These types of loans can stay open indefinitely as long as you do not exceed the loan to value ratio. In a realistic example, let’s say you put in $100,000 worth of bitcoin and you take out a $15,000 loan against your bitcoin. You would receive $15,000 and stable coins would you then do whatever you need to with it. $15,000 loan = .2354 btc in today’s bitcoin value. Let’s say you wanted to pay back to $15,000 in one month. If bitcoin goes down by 50%, you still owe $15k worth of btc at the current market price. In this case you would need to use .4708 btc to cover your loan while the market is 50% down. The reverse is also true. If btc goes up in value, it takes less btc to = the $25k repayment. With that in mind, this is what the wealthy do… They borrow against an appreciating asset, in our example… bitcoin. They may borrow 5% of 10, million for example, which is $500k. In order to be liquidated, bitcoin would have to drop 95% in value, which is highly unlikely. But on the opposite side when bitcoin goes up and value, it takes less bitcoin to repay the loan. So instead of having to use 7.85 bitcoin to repay the loan at the start of the process, when bitcoin goes up in value 100%, it will only take 3.92 bitcoin to repay the 500K loan. When you take this principal and extrapolate it out over the next 10 to 15 years, as the US dollar continues to get debased by monetary printing, bitcoin will continue to go up in value against it. To learn more about this type of thing, you can do a search on YouTube for the term “buy, borrow, die”. This is a very common strategy for the rich because it requires that you have an asset that you can borrow against. Most of them use stocks for this, but bitcoin is the new player in the game.

coojw

It can be done with smart contracts within DEFI currently. In the future, banks in traditional finance will provide this service, and banks will be regulated when they provide the service. Using Defi to borrow against your tokens is easy, permissionless, has transparency, and no 3rd parties can manipulate the smart contract, as the contents of the smart contract is publicly visible and verifiable.

CointestMod

#Nano Pro-Arguments Below is a Nano pro-argument written by Dwarfdeaths. > Copied from my post on the previous cointest thread: > > To start things off, I will take for granted that Nano is the best at simply being a digital currency. There is no other protocol that I’m aware of which matches the speedy, feeless, eco-friendly, and highly scalable properties of Nano for peer to peer payment. Its asynchronous mode of operation allows it to scale continuously as hardware and bandwidth improves over time. Its consensus protocol has so far proven secure and non-centralizing. The only flaw actually demonstrated in real life has been spam resistance, for which steps have been/are being taken to mitigate. When asked to envision a globally adopted cryptocurrency, Nano presents a clear solution. At the end of the post I will address some common arguments against Nano being good at digital cash, but otherwise I will move on to my main point. > > In the current landscape of crypto technologies, Nano’s functionality as *merely* digital cash can sound underwhelming. When confronted with the choice between a protocol that does digital money and a protocol that can potentially do “everything,” it’s easy to dismiss the money use case. On the contrary, I think being a good digital cash is absolutely critical and perhaps the only thing that matters long term. I have two main parts to my argument: First, most proposed uses for crypto are bad, and second, Nano isn’t incompatible with the good uses, and in fact is necessary for them to work. Before continuing I’ll note that Nano’s use case is not earth-shattering. For the average person in a modern country with the convenience of credit cards, it will make a pretty minor difference in their lives. For myself, it would have (a) saved me from paying an international wire fee while registering for a conference recently, and (b) would save the 3% credit card processing fee I paid at the DMV, as well as for all the businesses that normally foot this bill (which will probably be the main driver for adoption if it happens). Other things, like preventing the monopolistic control of payment processing (see OnlyFans) are also worth considering, and is one of the original motivations for bitcoin, but are less tangible. For countries without a stable currency it becomes a bit more serious as you're also inheriting a more usable currency than what your government can provide. So I think crypto has a chance to make marginal improvements over our existing system, and thus should be promoted, but isn't an earth-shattering breakthrough. > > Anyway. The first part of the argument is probably unpopular so let’s get it over with. **Most proposed use-cases of crypto(currencies) are bad.** This stems from the fact that a completely trustless, decentralized system can only agree on virtual information, such as opinions. Anything coming from the real world is subject to the “garbage in, garbage out” principle (also known as the oracle problem), or from enforcing anything that the ledger says on the real world. Money is one of the few things that is truly virtual (though, the exchange of goods is not!). In Nano, a transaction could be considered two people expressing the opinion that one should pay the other, and it is backed by their cryptographic signatures. Publishing and signing documents was one of the other earlier use cases for blockchains, and is essentially expressing your opinion that you agree with/to the document. A use-case like logistics or insurance or betting requires input from the real world. A block-chain can gather people’s opinions on whether some aspect of reality is true, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true, which means you have to trust people to accurately represent reality. So, not trustless. And if it’s not trustless, why did you bother making it a crypto app? When you boil it down, 'crypto' can only every let you add the properties of (decentralized, trustless, permissionless) to something that was already possible with software. If that doesn't add any benefit, either because those properties weren't needed or because there is a practical reason that those properties can't be attained, then the proposed use case is ultimately doomed. Let me quickly go through a list of the most commonly cited applications I’m aware of and why they are bad: > > - **Stablecoins** – irrelevant once a global cryptocurrency is adopted. > - **Lending** – definitely worthwhile if it could be done, but AFAIK you can never do **trustless, uncollateralized loans**, which almost entirely defeats the purpose. If your collateral is another ostensibly fungible currency, then there was no need for the loan. Loans in the typical sense will always be trusting and personally identifiable for the foreseeable future. > - **Yield farming, liquidity mining** - Zero sum nonsense. > - **Insurance** - garbage in garbage out. Sure you can write a contract that will handle your insurance plan, but you need an authority to establish what actually happened in the real world. Who is going to verify that your car got dented in a hit and run, or that your water damage bills are accurate, or that a dude actually died? > - **Logistics** - garbage in garbage out. Blockchain doesn't prevent some guy in the supply chain from tampering with or misreporting a shipment. If something goes wrong, you are still going to have to investigate and track down exactly what happened in the real world for any resolution. > - **Crowdfunding** - An actually useful concept, but governance is tricky because it must all be based on the opinions of the network participants. Who is the arbiter of the deliverables? Did the fundee actually make the thing they said they would? Can the crowd just stiff the fundee even if they delivered? I think this problem may be solvable on average, but not universally. As is often the case, this decentralized application need not itself be currency. > > - **Decentralized exchanges** - Largely irrelevant if a true global currency like Nano is adopted. These could be useful for exchanging between the fast P2P coin and a privacy coin like Monero, but that’s about it. See part two below for more clarification. There’s again no reason to make the DEX a currency itself. > > It may sound implausible that a platform like Ethereum can have so much traffic and have little to no real utility, but I think this is a byproduct of the influx of speculative money into the system. Most of the traffic is either speculation or speculation services. Much like a roulette wheel is a legitimate service to facilitate gambling, most of these smart contract functionalities are services that facilitate moving money around in increasingly obscure and ultimately useless ways. While roulette wheels will certainly never go away, I wouldn't expect them to gain global usage either. > > Now for the second part of the argument. Any cryptocurrency that can’t natively scale to **global, day-to-day, coffee-buying** adoption is not a good cryptocurrency. As stated above, one of the main motivations for cryptocurrencies existing is that they are trustless, permissionless, and censorship resistant. If you need to go to an exchange to turn your cryptocurrency into a spendable currency, you are now trusting the exchange, you are requiring permission from the exchange, and the exchange can censor your wishes to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy. You can shuffle between as many neat cryptos on a DEX as you want, but ultimately if you want to buy a coffee you either need a crpyto that can scale to coffee buying or you need a fiat exchange that breaks crypto properties. Nano is the coffee buying crypto. Bitcoin’s store of value argument is destroyed by the necessity of exchanges. A true store of value can be spent at any time, on anything, without fees or the need to interact with any third party. (Note: lightning network sacrifices crypto properties, so I’m ignoring it as a cryptocurrency. People are free to treat it like a cryptocurrency, but it’s not.) > > For the few useful decentralized applications that might exist, they can almost certainly be made to work with Nano as their settlement layer, if they need a settlement layer at all. (BitTorrent is a DApp that existed well before cryptocurrency...) Smart contracts can look at the Nano chain for proof that a payment has been made, and can execute payments on the Nano network. There’s no need to have a platform where transaction and execution of arbitrary programs are competing for the same computing resources, and it creates a harmful economic pressure on transacting that will eventually create pain points when the network is inevitably pushed to its throughput limits. The decision against smart contracts in Nano is a conscious one. > > So, putting these things together, I think the vast majority of crypto coins are a bad idea, incorporating DEFI functionality is adding little or no value, and that above all the use case that will fundamentally matter is still performance as digital cash. Any secondary applications will need this core functionality/adoption as the starting point, and none of the other existing protocols do it as well as Nano. > > In the reply below I will address a few common arguments against Nano working as digital cash. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Nano) to find submissions for other topics.

hdrive1335

It would probably take an overwhelming amount of man hours to compile a list of all your transactions that would pass the 'without-a-doubt' requirement to charge you... at this time. I have no doubt in the next couple years AI/ML will easily be able to do it though. I wouldn't lean on anonymity in DEFI when used 'regularly.'

uncapchad

Proof of mistake. It's very difficult to shoe-horn in PoS from PoW. Not all dreams will be realised. Kow-tow to green mania at your peril. AI, banks, Google et al, consume more electricity than PoWs which irrationally became a stick to beat all cryptocurrencies with. It was a gargantuan undertaking for Ethereum. It required a lot of faith and prolonged lock-up for investors which lead to the wrapping of things. L2s took that gap with the lock-up period. SOL stormed head. Wee beasties wearing hats could generate income faster than any staking. DEFI made transactions simple for anyone who knew how to add an extension to a browser. ETH became an expensive pain-in-the-middle. This leaves Ethereum in limbo. ETH as PoS has a much lower value-proposition from when they started out on their PoS journey. Who knew the market would move so fast? Back in the day, ETH was the main (some say only) contender for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is great as a settlement layer but not great for day-to-day transactions. ETH appealed to corporates. In fact corporates invested in ETH to get smart-contracts and other nuances better suited to inter- and intra-business transactions. L2s and other chains came along and sucked up the void whilst ETH was re-architecting and locking up. Projections back then could not predict the DEFI explosion we see now. The market right now isn't interested in a better blockchain, just a more lucrative one. Whether those same corporates are still keen to keep PoS ETH going is a tenuous thing.

bogycoins

DEFI

KiritimatiSwan

This is a good thing. All you can do is position yourself. If you’re currently a DEFI lord, then you’re smart enough to see the receding water prior to the regulation tsunami.

uncapchad

Fincen. This is for all those services offering on/off-ramp with fiat. Buy with credit card that sort of thing. The clampdown on DEFI is well under way. In the UK banks already auto-block any transaction you try with an unregulated processor.

ActualSherbert8050

Floki's DEFI is larger than all of the competing dog coins put together.

ElDiabloRamon

Bitcoin ETF ticker names: ……………….. BTC - Bitcoin AKRB - Ark invest 21shares Bitcoin ETF BITB - Bitwise Bitcoin Trust ETF FBTC - Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin ETF FDIG - Fidelity Crypto Industry Digital Payments ETF GBTC - Greyscale Bitcoin Trust ETF IBIT - Blackrock iShares Bitcoin Trust ETF HODL - Vaneck Bitcoin Trust ETF BTCW - WisdomTree Bitcoin Trust ETF EZBC - Franklin Bitcoin ETF BRRR - valkyre Bitcoin Trust ETF DEFI - Hashdex Bitcoin Futures ETF BTCO - InvestCo Galaxy Bitcoin ETF

Johan544

Being so worried about it and freaking out to make sure every little transaction you make is properly reported and the amount in taxes is exactly what it should be is the height of foolishness. The IRS will not have time to go through every single one of your CEX or DEFI transactions to see if you messed up somewhere along the line. They'll see how much you bought of crypto with fiat, how much you cashed out, and calculate how much you owe based on those numbers. You're all cowards who shit themselves at the mere thought of getting an IRS phone call/e-mail and it shows. No wonder you're all terrible traders. Yes, try to get a rough estimate of how much you owe in taxes and pay it, but don't lose sleep over it. There are literally millions of people in our shoes right now, and the IRS does not have the wherewithal to investigate all of their transactions.

pantufa71

In my opinion the time to do that already passed. You had to think about loans when no one wanted Bitcoin. You can use DEFI to make loans with your Bitcoin was a colateral. Lend BTC borrow USDC and buy more BTC but be careful and DYOR.

Substantial_Bear5153

Also, to expand a litte bit more specifically to your questions: Treat all smart contracts as malicious. For most of them source is not even available. Trust only widely used DEX swap router contracts such as Uniswap. When you sign an approval for eg Uniswap, you store into eg the USDT contract the amount that Uniswap can move from your balance. This can be finite (has to be renewed), or infinite. Allowance approved for a malicious contract can be revoked using revoke.cash; be careful of fakes of this site. It is considered good wallet hygiene to revoke unused DEFI contract approvalls. There is a super dangerous type of message that you can sign which can act as a blank check for further signing anything. Your browser wallet extension (I recommend Rabby) will warn you about this. If signed, the account must is permanently compromised.

The_Basic_Shapes

>The top DEFI creator just bailed I had not heard this, can you elaborate? Google isn't showing me anything

GoodHands325

Last bull run we had DEFI summer, wouldn’t surprise me if we had a “summer of meme coins” (or something along those lines) this time around. Love them or hate them, I think they will be a driving narrative and bring more retail back in

Kingpander

You are wrong. It is consiered transferring crypto to yourself not selling crypto. As per this source you provided they consider the sale of one crypto like btc to fiat and then fiat to eth. If you do an atomic swap of btc to eth it is not “selling” as per the definition. From the coinbase blog post you shared: “Converting one crypto to another: When you use bitcoin to buy ether, for example, you technically have to sell your bitcoin before you buy a new asset. Because this is a sale, the IRS considers it taxable. You’ll owe taxes if you sold your bitcoin for more than you paid for it.” You will owe tax if you use a CEX like coinbase to trade, since you are buying and selling when ‘converting‘ your cryptos. But you will not if you use a DEX with true atomic swap, as there is no “sale” occurring. There is also no way of knowing the parties involved, or what jurisdiction they are in. By the spirit of the law of taxation it is on income (which doesn’t apply to this example) or on capital gains. Currently the only measure of capital gains occur when you offramp or sell to fiat. Good luck to the SEC in trying to regulate and control DEFI. The only possible way is by going after the doxxed developers of the tools we use in the space, which they realize and is exactly what they are now doing. But to regulate and control all of DEFI is truly a fool’s errand. Never going to happen.

Kingpander

You are wrong. It is considered transferring crypto to yourself not selling crypto. As per this source you provided they consider the sale of one crypto like btc to fiat and then fiat to eth. If you do an atomic swap of btc to eth it is not “selling” as per the definition. Good luck to you my fren. I have been in crypto for years and have filed accurately for years and by the spirit of the law of taxation it is on capital gains and currently the only measure of capital gains occur when you offramp or sell to fiat. Also good luck to the SEC in trying to regulate and control DEFI, never going to happen.

Kingpander

No logic to that. Fiat currency conversions (ie usd to gbp) are not taxable events, so no clue why you would assume these are. Also there’s no way to enforce or regulate DEFI. It’s a fools errand.

uncapchad

Unless the infrastructure around a blockchain vanishes completely, everything will still be around. There always seems to be an exchange somewhere where even the most ancient of coins are still traded. POWs took a knock because of the environmental issues (and none of them have meme coins wifhats) but their durability and longevity seem assured. Most were designed for a specific purpose. Once the market settles down and starts looking at utility instead of clothing, some might make a comeback. It's a DEFI world at the moment, and that's very difficult corner for POWs to fight.

YuntHunter

At a glance they seem very far off and I saw no mention of DEFI or smart contracts though?

zesushv

Market prices unfortunately do not reflect the true movement of assets. Why? Simple, too many manipulations within the cex sector, where a bot can perform over 100,000 trade to sway the market whichever way the controller desires and allow paper hands to panic and consolidate that position. This sadly will not stop anytime soon until [DEX](https://np.reddit.com/r/zetablockchain/comments/1376kop/defi_amm_platform_towerdefi_now_supports_twstzeta/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)/DEFI becomes the goto platform for major assets like bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, Doge, Zeta etc, trades.

reversenotation

According to DEFI llama - ETH 51 $b - SOL 4.76 $b

The_surreal_McCoy

Haven't lost any BTC proper, but my fair share lost to DEFI, shitcoins and a rug pull.

reditpost1

Onyx Protocol is huge with DEFI. I'm excited to see what happens this bull run.

CointestMod

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is a Algorand pro-argument written by FrogsAreBest123. > # Algorand > > * Disclaimers: > * This post is heavily inspired and sometimes copied word for word from my old post about algo. seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttc/comment/hh6z73n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). > * I do own Algorand and act as a governor. Algorand represents under 10% of my total portfolio. > * **Background Information for people who have no idea what Algorand is** > * Feel free to skip this if you know the basics of Algo. > * Algorand has been built off of three institutions, AlgoCapital, Algorand Foundation, and Algorand Inc. > * AlgoCapital has rebranded to [Borderless Capital](https://www.borderlesscapital.io/), but regardless, they're an asset trading corporation, they also build financial products to support Algorand and its ecosystem. > * The [Algorand Foundation](https://www.algorand.foundation/) distributes the token "Algo" > * [Algorand Inc.](https://www.algorand.com/futurefi/) does the R&D for Algorand. Of which, Algorand Inc owns a few [patents](https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/applications/16709719/ifw/docs) on crypto technology (as an example above). > * Tokenomics > * Supply of seven billion, a valuation of two billion. [Inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pkks3v/algorand_a_3900_increase_and_a_3_profit/) used to be insanely high, which I had made a post on that was deleted but explained that at the time Algorand had a 3900% increase in valuation, but a 3% price change. Luckily inflation has been slowed down a lot since vesting ended. Infact, 7 of the 10 billion algo's that will ever be minted and released have already been, which to some is a bad figure, but I'm just glad we won't go back to algorand's old inflation numbers. > > # The Pros > > * Fees > * The fees for Algorand are low ([0.001 Algo](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/get-started/basics/why_algorand/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20concept%20of,1%2C000%20microAlgos%20or%200.001%20Algos)) I know a lot of people aren't having issues with $1 gas fees on Ethereum and such, But if you were there in 2020, 2021. You know just how important low transaction fees are, for example: > * Low fees allow most people to use the defi ecosystem. With Ethereum, a lot of people were simply priced out of DEFI, or so scared of messing something up, cause every transaction was $20, $30, gone. > * Pera Wallet > * Pera Wallet is a nice simple wallet for most algorand users, it's made to be user-friendly, and was made by [HIPO and Algorand](https://blog.perawallet.app/its-official-algorand-wallet-is-now-pera-wallet-171561597664) themselves. You can also swap ASA's in the wallet itself. > * Blockchain Trilemma > * Scalability, decentralization, and security. Coined by Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum... Every good cryptocurrency has selected two of the three options above but cannot have all three. One of [Algorand's main goals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM24Vn8RJeo) is to disprove this and be the solution > * Decentralization > * [Governance](https://governance.algorand.foundation/governance-period-6) has been out for a while, Governance incentivizes people to hold their Algo, Firstly, you get Algo for committing your Algo to governance and voting on proposals, but if you move your Algo out of your governance wallet OR do not vote, you lose the governance benefits. > * The Algorand community has slowly been increasing the amount of Algo committed for each governance period, from 1.7B to currently 4B, showing commitment to the ecosystem. > * Algorand has a few types of nodes that keep the network running. Relay nodes do not participate in consensus but keep the network running in the background. There's about [120 relay nodes](https://www.algorand.foundation/general-faq#:~:text=How%20many%20relay%20nodes%20are,nodes%20on%20the%20Algorand%20network) running, a lot owned by Algorand. Participation nodes help keep the network running too and are included in governance and consensus voting. There are about 1500 participation nodes, some run participation nodes when running an algorand project, but in all, not too many run a node because of the lack of a large financial incentive, this really does go to show though even with a lack of a large financial compensation, algorand still has 1500 nodes. > * **DEFI** > * ASA's > * [Algorand Standard assets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkQO5dfOOE&t=1110s). ASA's are just simple ways to deploy tokens, NFTs, and other things on the Algorand network. A lot of people say they act similarly to ERC-20 tokens on the Ethereum network. > * Programming > * Algorand "makes it simple to program on its blockchain"... "With Java, JavaScript (node.js and browser), Go, and Python SDKs, along with REST APIs, you can build on Algorand in your preferred programming languages." [src](https://www.algorand.com/hack) This makes it obviously really simple to build DAPPS on Algo, with the help of ASA's AND the help of subsidization from the Algorand Foundation, Defi will be doing well! ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find submissions for other topics.

MarvinTAndroid

Note that both of the ETF's you listed are futures BTC funds vs the eleven spot ETF's: ARK 21Shares Bitcoin ETF (ARKB) 0.21% Bitwise Bitcoin ETF (BITB) 0.20% Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Trust (FBTC) 0.25% Franklin Bitcoin ETF (EZBC) 0.19% Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) 1.50% Hashdex Bitcoin ETF (DEFI) 0.90% Invesco Galaxy Bitcoin ETF (BTCO) 0.25% iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) 0.25% Valkyrie Bitcoin Fund (BRRR) 0.25% VanEck Bitcoin Trust (HODL) 0.25% WisdomTree Bitcoin Fund (BTCW) 0.25%

CointestMod

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is a Algorand pro-argument written by FrogsAreBest123. > # Algorand > > * Disclaimers: > * This post is heavily inspired and sometimes copied word for word from my old post about algo. seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttc/comment/hh6z73n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). > * I do own Algorand and act as a governor. Algorand represents under 10% of my total portfolio. > * **Background Information for people who have no idea what Algorand is** > * Feel free to skip this if you know the basics of Algo. > * Algorand has been built off of three institutions, AlgoCapital, Algorand Foundation, and Algorand Inc. > * AlgoCapital has rebranded to [Borderless Capital](https://www.borderlesscapital.io/), but regardless, they're an asset trading corporation, they also build financial products to support Algorand and its ecosystem. > * The [Algorand Foundation](https://www.algorand.foundation/) distributes the token "Algo" > * [Algorand Inc.](https://www.algorand.com/futurefi/) does the R&D for Algorand. Of which, Algorand Inc owns a few [patents](https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/applications/16709719/ifw/docs) on crypto technology (as an example above). > * Tokenomics > * Supply of seven billion, a valuation of two billion. [Inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pkks3v/algorand_a_3900_increase_and_a_3_profit/) used to be insanely high, which I had made a post on that was deleted but explained that at the time Algorand had a 3900% increase in valuation, but a 3% price change. Luckily inflation has been slowed down a lot since vesting ended. Infact, 7 of the 10 billion algo's that will ever be minted and released have already been, which to some is a bad figure, but I'm just glad we won't go back to algorand's old inflation numbers. > > # The Pros > > * Fees > * The fees for Algorand are low ([0.001 Algo](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/get-started/basics/why_algorand/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20concept%20of,1%2C000%20microAlgos%20or%200.001%20Algos)) I know a lot of people aren't having issues with $1 gas fees on Ethereum and such, But if you were there in 2020, 2021. You know just how important low transaction fees are, for example: > * Low fees allow most people to use the defi ecosystem. With Ethereum, a lot of people were simply priced out of DEFI, or so scared of messing something up, cause every transaction was $20, $30, gone. > * Pera Wallet > * Pera Wallet is a nice simple wallet for most algorand users, it's made to be user-friendly, and was made by [HIPO and Algorand](https://blog.perawallet.app/its-official-algorand-wallet-is-now-pera-wallet-171561597664) themselves. You can also swap ASA's in the wallet itself. > * Blockchain Trilemma > * Scalability, decentralization, and security. Coined by Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum... Every good cryptocurrency has selected two of the three options above but cannot have all three. One of [Algorand's main goals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM24Vn8RJeo) is to disprove this and be the solution > * Decentralization > * [Governance](https://governance.algorand.foundation/governance-period-6) has been out for a while, Governance incentivizes people to hold their Algo, Firstly, you get Algo for committing your Algo to governance and voting on proposals, but if you move your Algo out of your governance wallet OR do not vote, you lose the governance benefits. > * The Algorand community has slowly been increasing the amount of Algo committed for each governance period, from 1.7B to currently 4B, showing commitment to the ecosystem. > * Algorand has a few types of nodes that keep the network running. Relay nodes do not participate in consensus but keep the network running in the background. There's about [120 relay nodes](https://www.algorand.foundation/general-faq#:~:text=How%20many%20relay%20nodes%20are,nodes%20on%20the%20Algorand%20network) running, a lot owned by Algorand. Participation nodes help keep the network running too and are included in governance and consensus voting. There are about 1500 participation nodes, some run participation nodes when running an algorand project, but in all, not too many run a node because of the lack of a large financial incentive, this really does go to show though even with a lack of a large financial compensation, algorand still has 1500 nodes. > * **DEFI** > * ASA's > * [Algorand Standard assets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkQO5dfOOE&t=1110s). ASA's are just simple ways to deploy tokens, NFTs, and other things on the Algorand network. A lot of people say they act similarly to ERC-20 tokens on the Ethereum network. > * Programming > * Algorand "makes it simple to program on its blockchain"... "With Java, JavaScript (node.js and browser), Go, and Python SDKs, along with REST APIs, you can build on Algorand in your preferred programming languages." [src](https://www.algorand.com/hack) This makes it obviously really simple to build DAPPS on Algo, with the help of ASA's AND the help of subsidization from the Algorand Foundation, Defi will be doing well! ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find submissions for other topics.

PurposeFew1363

DEFI

CointestMod

#Fantom Pro-Arguments Below is a Fantom pro-argument written by FrogsDoBeCool. > # Fantom, its Background and Pro's > > Disclaimer: I have not owned or worked with the Fantom network in the past. This piece was made for people to introduce them to Fantom, and all the benefits it has on the surface, and foundationally. > > # Consensus, and the DAG > > * **Proof of Stake** > * Fantom runs the **proof of stake** consensus to keep the network running, compared to **proof of work** (which major cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero, etc use). "[Proof of stake](https://blockworks.co/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-whats-the-difference/) systems are significantly more energy-efficient than proof-of-work operations..." It's also significantly easier for a person to make a node on a PoS network than a PoW network, usually, all you need is a laptop, and a certain amount of tokens. All of these are positives for Fantom, but diving deeper, Fantom uses a specific PoS consensus. > * The APY of proof of stake (the tokens you receive from holding your Fantom tokens in a wallet) is anywhere from 4% to 15%. Fantom has a system in place to prevent people from fear selling, this is [called locking](https://fantom.foundation/ftm-staking/#:~:text=Choose%20to%20lock%2Dup%20your,base%20rate%20%E2%80%93%204%25%20APY), you lock your fantom tokens in your wallet to receive more APY benefits. So if you lock up your Fantom for 14 days, you get 4% APY, but if you lock it up for 1 year, you get 15%. > * **Lachesis** > * According to the [Fantom Foundation](https://www.fantom.foundation/lachesis-consensus-algorithm/), "We created Lachesis to overcome the limitations of previous consensus algorithms. It is, in fact, the ideal option for applications that need high-throughput, fast finality, and bank-grade security". > * Blocks do not need to be confirmed for a transaction to finalize, there are systems in place to prevent malicious and false transactions, and there's no 'leader' system where a specific wallet or person confirms blocks or transactions. > * **The DAG** > * Lachesis runs on the DAG, a consensus that differs than the normal "blockchain". In a normal blockchain, block 1 directly goes to block 2, directly goes to block 3, etc. in a DAG, block 1 could connect with multiple blocks, like block 2, 3, 4, etc. A DAG must never circle around, so if block 10 is the latest block, it cannot go back and confirm block 1 again. > * But why the DAG? Fantom uses a DAG to increase the scale and speed of its transactions. Each "block" (a dag isn't a blockchain to say) acts semi-independently of each other to get faster confirms. > * Fantom can reach a [transaction finality](https://fantom.foundation/blog/tps-or-ttf-understanding-blockchain-speed/) of 1 second. So on average a transaction will be finalized in 1 second, this is different than what many other crypto people use to tell how fast a network is, that being TPS (transactions per second). the DAG that Fantom uses allows transactions to be finalized on the network significantly quicker than the block being confirmed. (it's important to note, smart contract transactions are significantly slower than just moving fantom tokens). > > # DEFI > > * **EVM** > * [The EVM is the Ethereum Virtual Machine](https://www.bitrates.com/guides/ethereum/what-is-the-unstoppable-world-computer#:~:text=The%20EVM%20is%20essential%20to,(i.e.)%20executing%20smart%20contracts), a machine that devs use to create dapps (Decentralized Applications), Fantom is EVM compatible, meaning you can port an ETH dapp onto the Fantom network without having to recreate the entire dapp from scratch. > * Incentives to build > * Most devs work on the ETH blockchain due to its popularity, but many also work for Fantom, why? for one, the EVM helps them port their dapps easily, and for another, money. [Over 370 million Fantom](https://www.benzinga.com/pressreleases/21/08/g22721821/fantom-announces-massive-incentive-program-to-reward-defi-developers) has been directed to help devs produce dapps > > # Governance > > * [Fantom has a unique governance system](https://fantom.foundation/blog/on-chain-governance-released/), for one, anyone can propose something for 100 Fantom. And voting costs about $0.00001 in transaction fees. > * Then for voting, a wallet holder can vote 0-4 instead of yes and no. 0 is total disagreement, 4 is complete agreement. Each proposal can have multiple options too to represent all points of view. > * All proposals are in templates for how much they change the network. > * A template 1 vote is a non-important vote, agreement levels must be 55% or more. > * A template 2 vote is also non-important but requires a bit more agreement, 60%. > * A template 3 vote will directly change the network, may be for updates, or changing the rewards rate for delegators. 90% of delegators must vote, and a 90% of them must agree > * A template 4 vote can deconstruct a solidity contract, basically used for changing penalties for if something happened. 90% of delegators must vote, but only 55% must agree. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_fantom) to find submissions for other topics.

Calibased

That money is gone. People remember post like this when you got the echo chamber people hating on you for using CEX like coinbase. Without question more money has been lost through DEFI and self custody. Without question.

falsomovimento

I would shill $DUSK though. Privacy DEFI like $ROSE but with the trendy RWA aspect. Has pumped this month but it is going to $3 I think.

_jtru_

AERO. DEFI on base network.

JustStopppingBye

This will all change when CCIP is released. Just like DEFI summer (started by chainlink) this year will be cross chain summer (also chainlink). This is what will be possible with CCIP. [https://xswap.link/](https://xswap.link/)

hoyeay

There’s DEFI platforms that allows borrowing against BTC.

ENTIMEYJ

BTC is digital gold and a store of value. you don't need to move it everyday. ETH serves a different purpose with DEFI

HorsePockets

As someone holding fairly heavy bags in ETH and SOL... ETH needs to speed the fuck up and not use bridges. DEFI is complicated and weird enough without all that.

advias

Revolutionized DEFI, not a revolution. PayPal for sure revolutionized internet payments. Uniswap is by far the biggest deal in defi, its spawned everything you see when it comes to any smart contracts chain. But DAI is also a big deal, i would put them right behind Uniswap.

DingDangDiddlyDangit

The irony in DEFI being so centralized that there are certain groups in charge of implementing changes/safeguards. DEFI is snake oil.

iamgollem

If you worked in regulation you understand that a lot of DEFI would need to implement the proper audits and safeguards. Most will get fined by the SEC and/or take years to comply while they get delisted and harder to gain adoption.

Xylber

I think we are not there yet. We are still waiting those crypto-games scams, stupid drawings sold as "art" as NFTs and those DEFI websites with BNB tokens called like a wild animal giving 10000x APR like the Argentine Peso. *^(Disclaimer: Not all crypto-games, NFTs art or DEFI websites are scams.)*

ttrumbo

Yeah it's actually $320 million none of the trackers are accurately pulling all DEFI apps

retirementdreams

2020 was the year I finally woke up. I remember reading the white paper back early on and thought, neat, Internet money. I already have internet money in my Project Entropia game - I don't need anymore internet money, and completely blew off Bitcoin. Around 2017, I saw a skater kid who was pushing a mail cart around the office retire, and have to admit feeling some fomo, but again, did nothing - for reasons? In 2020, I saw it hit the bottom and bounce and thought, man I should probably get some. And it took me until I heard Michael Saylor talking about his change of mind on BTC in a podcast interview in August of 2020. My wife went to visit family for Thanksgiving holiday. I took that time to dig in, signed up with exchanges, transferred funds around, and finally started buying at about 17k as it was taking off again. I bought all the way up to 65, and all the way back down to 16, and back up to 69 again and here we are. My only mistake was selling some for "DEFI Passive Income Projects" - "To earn more alpha" on my BTC so I could buy more BTC! And got totally rugged. Plus what I lost in Celsius. Never again. Lessons were learned. I haven't done anything but add to my hodl since then, and consider it legacy funds locked up for our kids in the future.

StygianFuhrer

The taxable event is however much you bought the USDC for originally vs the disposal price. For your example, if you bought it for $5k and sold for $10k then you’ve got $5k in gains you gotta pay tax on, even if you bought it with DEFI or years ago.

aym1347

HYPE hyperbolic protocol. DEFI lending protocol. It is one of the first projects to use chainlink CCIP to bridge from eth to arbitrum. The contract was approved this week and they are injecting liquidity and adding assets before announcing on the socials. Around 1 mil mc.

RMZ13

This is my first bull run. I’ve learned to embrace DEFI in the first few weeks. My eyes are ever more open to crypto.

Gr8WallofChinatown

People don’t really need nor care about DEFI. So far DEFI is just shitcoining and yield farming shitcoins. The staking APYs on safer altcoins are lower than current tradfi yields but with higher risk and fees

beerbaron105

Ampleforth is setting off DEFI alt season

AdamFitri2005

So it's probably better for u to invest in alts, research cryptos in hot narratives like AI, gaming, DEFI and pick ones you think are promising

-Blue_Bull-

I rebalance with a threshold of 0.75% Pionex used to be the best place to do this as they offer a discount to people who use their rebalancing bot. Ultimately, I'm looking for a replacement. I could code my own rebalancer but the issue of fees then gets in the way of profits. I was wondering if anybody knows of a DEFI / DEX solution that has either low fees or a built in rebalancer with low fees?

afkfrom

Staking means "lending your money to someone else, and TRUSTING them not to lose that money". They will do shady things and lose your money. In crypto, you cannot stake BTC, and you cannot stake USDC. You can stake Ethereum, but this requires additional knowledge, having a node (your own server) and it's complicated. It's not worth the risk. DON'T DO IT. It's 2022. You staked your money on FTX, it collapsed, you lost 100%. Celsius also collapsed and lost 100%. Tomorrow, it could be Kraken. Even funnier than that, Kraken's own CEO said "don't leave your tokens on any exchange including my own". Keep your crypto with your cold wallet, don't let anyone touch it. Have a look at DEFI however. AAVE has 7-10% return on USDC and your tokens don't leave your wallet, so that's a good thing. Have a look at Aave and other defi protocols.

jwz9904

so today is the DEFI pump. even SUSHI is up 40%

Jaythiest

If you cash back out to a CEX to convert back to fiat. CEX most likely would keep records of that even if you didn’t fully cash out to fiat at the bank. Otherwise any trackable spending. If you are able to spend the bitcoin directly using DEFI then that wouldn’t necessarily be trackable. And finally, as mentioned by many others, trackable/visible/self reportable asset acquisitions “outside” of your reported income. So if you were able to buy a Lambo using BTC directly, wouldn’t necessarily be that exact event that would expose you. But you need to register it, insure it, etc.

Gr8WallofChinatown

MetaMask will never see wider adoption because (as much as I like it) the normal person has no need or want to use it. Navigating it is terrible. Switching networks, connecting accounts to DEFI, etc is a disaster. Saving private keys and phrases is a disaster Plus the only feature they’re adding is this: >  The partnership, announced on Feb. 20, will enable MetaMask users to receive automatic security alerts about potentially malicious transactions. The new security feature is now integrated by default in both the MetaMask extension and mobile app.

XVenOG

I'm invested in what I think are some great RWA low carbon projects such as Carbify $CBY - Tokenising trees and reforesting the Amazon, Viridis Network $VRD - Carbon offsets for DEFI and Plume Network RWA focused layer 2. Think there's some great potential for a rotation into this space and it feels nice to be invested in responsible projects!

AdamFitri2005

If u want solid projects, look into trending narratives such as AI, DEFI, gaming or DEPIN and research the cryptos that fall into those narratives. Using coingecko can help u search crypto with narratives you want

Extreme-Benefyt

Just another coin "eth killer" who is not a DEFI, never decentralized, for me it's another hype coin similar to dodge and shiba when it comes to price movement. Oh yea, don't forget, thanks to solana and bnb we have in 2023 more scams than ever before, the launching of shit coins is incredible ... 99% of the projects are just dead. When bullmarket comes it's all about marketing, hype, money movement, and a lot of good luck, don't forget the FOMO. Jump in now, and get profits in the bullmarket

NambaCatz

Absolutely. The fact that Solana is just a Trojan horse, so called 'eth killer', whose only purpose is to trash the crypto industry, should be abundantly clear to anyone with experience in this industry. Let's be clear: Solana is just a ball of shit thrown at the crypto industry by the SBF's of the world. It is really just CEFI attempting to disguise itself as a legitimate DEFI contender and then once it's accepted it's aim is to turn this space into one controlled by the same players that currently control CEFI. It is a non-disruptive Trojan Horse from Wall Street that will hopefully fade into the past as a failed project. Not unlikely, given the tech is seriously flawed and overly complex.

vattenj

what about mortgage the crypto asset and getting stable coin loans? This is already happening in DEFI since several years back

Gr8WallofChinatown

They’re bullshitting. Their research is junk.  Their protocol design is a disaster and inefficient. It’s so bad that is couldn’t even handle low scale and had to centralized everything off chain. Research my ass. Every developer knew ADA was doomed before they ventured into DEFI. They raised the flags but Hoskinson ignored it and continued with his bullshit. Anyone who believes in ada is gullible 

lefort22

Stake & hold It went up 20% past 7 days, the DEFI usage is insane right now. Don't know if it'll reach 3 USD again but 1.5-2 USD is a certainty IMHO, in the coming 12 months

s1fro

Honestly I think that's a reasonable pick. It has done well already (close to it's highs), which is a good sign, looks like it's one of the more useful chains and has good partners. The tokenomics don't look horrible and the top 3 wallets hold about 40% which isnt even that bad. If you believe crypto as a whole can get new highs (like 6T+) and that alts can claw back market share then it's more than reasonable to believe we're going to see a lot more 10-100B caps. While AI is hyped now some more DEFI, DEPIN, storage, gaming... are bound to be in there. There's about 20k cryptos that will underperform with only a couple hundreds being good. With the added risk with potentially buying into a recession. But all of that is part of the fun.

DryArea5752

You could go the traditional way and buy BTC from a centralized exchange... Or you could seek out hidden markets and buy some BTC that was mined and sold discreetly.... Someday there's going to be an absolute monster of a market for BTC that was mined with the intended purpose of keeping the initial miners identity hidden and keeping it's status reputable. - BTC can and will be blacklisted in the future. Just use any BTC that transacted on silk road as an example, there will always be watchful eyes on those tokens. And with governments having access to ever vigilant AI and extremely diverse opinions, it's highly likely in the future certain markets ban crypto outright and a mass populous will have to utilize evasive techniques just to spend their currency, often times presumably having to go through a shady money broker or tumblers for some wrapped version, tainting the pool even more. - Also take custody of your tokens. Don't leave them on an exchange. Get a digital wallet and keep what you want to spend there, or get a cold storage offline wallet and keep some there. Or if ultra paranoid, just fully go paper wallet and never tell a soul. --The world is full shifting into Axis V Allies again, where the Axis is Socialism, Communism, and Authoritarianism all VS Democracy. Covid proved just how hyperconnected the world is. ----Also learn what DEFI is and lending pools are.

zipzoa

Well I bet you only missed when you left Nexo, because this is just the same old FUD going around again. People will do anything to not blame themselves but someone else. That's why CEFIs exist. People are not truly ready for DEFI and this is the exact reason Nexo is actually one of the best companies out there. As a long time nexo user I can confirm that my email wasn't compromised and I receive 0 fishy emails.

MrTryHardShow

I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have (not that I'm an expert though). Tinyman and Folks Finance are pretty popular, Pact FI as well, but I think they underwent a recent management change, so DYOR. The DEFI strategies with Algorand are pretty great, because they offer rewards for staking LP's during Algorand governance.

-Blue_Bull-

XMR will still be here in 10 years, Binance will not. Centralised exchanges are dying and being replaced by DEFI. Who honestly cares if Binance delists XMR?

Calibased

Newcomers: More money has been lost on DEFI and self custody than CEX by far. Remember post like this when you hear people shaming you for using coinbase.

PositiveUse

As there are literally no projects on DEFI that are sustainable, I think of all of them as scams. So team being anonymous doesn’t help.

DJCityQuamstyle

What’s everybody doin for/in DEFI these days?

diarpiiiii

Minswap batchers went down, and AXO release is delayed. golden opportunity for CARDANO DEFI IS DOWN 😍

Calibased

Dude that was 7 years ago. Times have changed. Grow up and learn from your mistakes and understand the risk/failure points. If this was DEFI/DEX and you made a boo-boo there would be no one to talk to. Your money would be GONE.

fridolin2509

The best thing about the BTC ETFs... The fckn tickers: HODL, BRRR, DEFI Some real degens are sitting in those companies haha

mk4cryptos

So, if its to expensive then : People can : Uno. Stop complaining ( find positivism ) Dos. They can find better job and the anniversary put in BTC, or ETF , or DEFI, or Staking ( but only if they know what they are doing , it is not advice ) Tres. Tey can sell expensive house and buy something cheaper in the countryside ( also not edvice ) Cuatro. They can take a debt on appartment and buy some cheaper in the countryside, and rent an apartment. If ther is anything more left, they can put it in e.g in BTC. If not they should wait for the loan to be repaid and the buy - see point dos. These are just my thoughts, not advices. I am psychic.

OkayICU

Play on the defi side of both networks and you'll understand. SOL is faster and transaction fees are cheaper than ETH. SOL also just surpassed ETH in DEFI transactions for the first time ever.

Legal_Cartographer77

Ah thank you so much, this information helped A LOT. Based on this information, I think if an individual just deposits their own crypto in DEFI in an escrow account to earn interest then they are safe if they are not an official business, right? While it was in escrow they had full control of their funds and it just sat there while they collected interest. Then they eventually withdrew their own funds from the escrow but it exceeded $10,000. This would not really count as a transaction that needs two be reported, right?

coojw

In DEFI, the whole point is having “trustless” systems in place. What this means is, trust isn’t required. Smart contracts do a pre-programmed task, and everyone can see exactly what that smart contract is programmed to do because everything is public. This is why trust isn’t needed. The company that built it puts their defi smart contract in the open for everyone to use and scrutinize. 3rd party auditors verify there no exploits in the contracts and that the contracts are unchangeable. Once this is confirmed, the users no longer have to trust, it just works.

coojw

This is what Decentralized Finance (AKA DEFI) allows you to do. Many different ways to use your tokens as collateral. Its all handled by smart contracts instead of a person, so there's no greed/corruption involved. You put your btc (or other tokens) into the smart contract, it gives you a loan based on the agreed parameters. Its really that simple. But if your BTC (or other token) fluctuates in value in a downward direction too much, you will get liquidated to cover what you owe. So you have to watch it closely. Watch youtube videos to learn more.

mrKennyBones

Depending on what you want to do with it, selecting chains that serve your purpose is the best bet. Read on the trilemma and what crypto blockchains are trying to solve. Essentially, there’s three elements to the “perfect” blockchain that seems impossible to reach, and each chain have different strategies and ways to get there. The trilemma is maintaining security, decentralization and scaleability(speed). So for example: - Bitcoin has security and decentralization but little to no scaleability. - Solana is an execution layer and has tons of scaleability and speed, but bad security and decentralization. It’s not really made for it either but it’s an amazing blockchain for trading as it’s super fast. But don’t trust it to store any significant value. Convert it to BTC or ADA when you want to store it away long term - Ethereum is trying to be everything all at once and is essentially bottlenecked in all three branches. But it was first and it’s basically a blue chip now. But it also has the most hacks and absurd high fees. - Cardano has great security and decentralization and is a settlement layer first and foremost. Meaning they’re trying to add scaleability AFTER the first two. Which in my opinion makes the most sense. Cause you can’t really add security and decentralization later, that’s like changing the tires of a car while it’s going high speed. This is why I use it as a store of value since it’s essentially as safe (if not safer) as Bitcoin. But that also means it’s slow in development and probably will need L2s to handle any significant load and speed. There is DEFI on Cardano and it’s gonna blow up next bill run, but do expect it to bottleneck during heavy load. It will however not fail as transactions are deterministic and you’ll know before sending a transaction if it’s gonna fail or not (unlike shitty Ethereum where you need to pay the fees regardless of if it fails or not) Then there’s Algorand which is also good and comparable to Cardano. Same with Polkadot, great tech and solid developers.

NexusKnights

We from bull run to bull run, we've had the ICO trend, then we had DEFI, then it was NFTs. Make no mistake, there will be an AI trend just because it's the new thing.

uncapchad

I think even on DEFI you need at least $10 to transact. There's a trade fee and a network fee to consider. You might do better with other cryptos but BTC network fees are super high at the moment. You'd need at least another $6 to move $2 worth of BTC and even then it's unlikely to succeed

CointestMod

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is a Algorand pro-argument written by FrogsAreBest123. > # Algorand > > * Disclaimers: > * This post is heavily inspired and sometimes copied word for word from my old post about algo. seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttc/comment/hh6z73n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). > * I do own Algorand and act as a governor. Algorand represents under 10% of my total portfolio. > * **Background Information for people who have no idea what Algorand is** > * Feel free to skip this if you know the basics of Algo. > * Algorand has been built off of three institutions, AlgoCapital, Algorand Foundation, and Algorand Inc. > * AlgoCapital has rebranded to [Borderless Capital](https://www.borderlesscapital.io/), but regardless, they're an asset trading corporation, they also build financial products to support Algorand and its ecosystem. > * The [Algorand Foundation](https://www.algorand.foundation/) distributes the token "Algo" > * [Algorand Inc.](https://www.algorand.com/futurefi/) does the R&D for Algorand. Of which, Algorand Inc owns a few [patents](https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/applications/16709719/ifw/docs) on crypto technology (as an example above). > * Tokenomics > * Supply of seven billion, a valuation of two billion. [Inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pkks3v/algorand_a_3900_increase_and_a_3_profit/) used to be insanely high, which I had made a post on that was deleted but explained that at the time Algorand had a 3900% increase in valuation, but a 3% price change. Luckily inflation has been slowed down a lot since vesting ended. Infact, 7 of the 10 billion algo's that will ever be minted and released have already been, which to some is a bad figure, but I'm just glad we won't go back to algorand's old inflation numbers. > > # The Pros > > * Fees > * The fees for Algorand are low ([0.001 Algo](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/get-started/basics/why_algorand/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20concept%20of,1%2C000%20microAlgos%20or%200.001%20Algos)) I know a lot of people aren't having issues with $1 gas fees on Ethereum and such, But if you were there in 2020, 2021. You know just how important low transaction fees are, for example: > * Low fees allow most people to use the defi ecosystem. With Ethereum, a lot of people were simply priced out of DEFI, or so scared of messing something up, cause every transaction was $20, $30, gone. > * Pera Wallet > * Pera Wallet is a nice simple wallet for most algorand users, it's made to be user-friendly, and was made by [HIPO and Algorand](https://blog.perawallet.app/its-official-algorand-wallet-is-now-pera-wallet-171561597664) themselves. You can also swap ASA's in the wallet itself. > * Blockchain Trilemma > * Scalability, decentralization, and security. Coined by Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum... Every good cryptocurrency has selected two of the three options above but cannot have all three. One of [Algorand's main goals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM24Vn8RJeo) is to disprove this and be the solution > * Decentralization > * [Governance](https://governance.algorand.foundation/governance-period-6) has been out for a while, Governance incentivizes people to hold their Algo, Firstly, you get Algo for committing your Algo to governance and voting on proposals, but if you move your Algo out of your governance wallet OR do not vote, you lose the governance benefits. > * The Algorand community has slowly been increasing the amount of Algo committed for each governance period, from 1.7B to currently 4B, showing commitment to the ecosystem. > * Algorand has a few types of nodes that keep the network running. Relay nodes do not participate in consensus but keep the network running in the background. There's about [120 relay nodes](https://www.algorand.foundation/general-faq#:~:text=How%20many%20relay%20nodes%20are,nodes%20on%20the%20Algorand%20network) running, a lot owned by Algorand. Participation nodes help keep the network running too and are included in governance and consensus voting. There are about 1500 participation nodes, some run participation nodes when running an algorand project, but in all, not too many run a node because of the lack of a large financial incentive, this really does go to show though even with a lack of a large financial compensation, algorand still has 1500 nodes. > * **DEFI** > * ASA's > * [Algorand Standard assets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkQO5dfOOE&t=1110s). ASA's are just simple ways to deploy tokens, NFTs, and other things on the Algorand network. A lot of people say they act similarly to ERC-20 tokens on the Ethereum network. > * Programming > * Algorand "makes it simple to program on its blockchain"... "With Java, JavaScript (node.js and browser), Go, and Python SDKs, along with REST APIs, you can build on Algorand in your preferred programming languages." [src](https://www.algorand.com/hack) This makes it obviously really simple to build DAPPS on Algo, with the help of ASA's AND the help of subsidization from the Algorand Foundation, Defi will be doing well! ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find submissions for other topics.

reversenotation

BTC is a store of value. ETH has use cases within DEFI. Outside of that, it's debatable what other real-world applications there are out there

Beer101010

It's a bad idea, and OP learned it the hard way. There's nothing wrong with hot wallets when you know what you are doing. And even then it's still a bad idea. That said, for a lot of people, hot wallets, can be tricky, if you sign the wrong thing, click on the wrong link, you can be drained, and DEFI is another nightmare for that. So if you have 50k, on a hot wallet you'll lose 50k. You should never expose that much on a web3 wallet, for daily use, it's just a recipe for disaster.

PleadingOwl

The problem with DEFI is most people, to some degree, don't know how to use it. Education should be at the front

Friendly_Monkey69

I played with various DEFI protocols from Algorand (Yieldly, Tinyman etc), to Optimism, Sandbox and Ethereum (Opensea, Wonderland etc). All are very interesting to use and explore but not something I will be using again for a while. It’s the wild west out there right now.

whitenoise2323

Probably not topping anyone else's list but AQUA, the liquidity layer coin for the Stellar network. It did 3X in the past month and its big use case as support for new DEFI projects on Stellar goes live end of January. Dirt cheap at $0.0007 so you can load up and watch it soar.

wooly_torch

Moreso AVAX. Or NEAR. OR INJ. OR TIA. OR... You may notice a pattern with these - DEFI NETWORKS.

Liver-detox

Oof. typical crap from the nerd echo chamber. I NEVER buy MEME coins. Look at yer downvotes bruh. Idle noize about what stupid other people (who are also not making $) think. My portfolio has not changed much since I left the DEFI club & tax loss harvested most of it. BTC ADA ETH BNB SOL DOT STX Been swinging some more Sol recently but it’s risen so much in a week I’m just gonna add it to my cold storage pile. like I should have done with the STX I sold at 1.11. (Doh!) When it cools off again I’ll get back into it. This forum appears to be about defending what people are stuck with from 2020/2021 & tryin to hang onto the dream. Maybe just let it go.

bluntasaknife

Solana is better tech period because: Fees are low, transactions are fast, centralized rumors are BS, down time was when it was still in BETA, Robust community, fantastic DEFI Protocols, trying to associate SBF is FUD ( no reasonable person thinks SBF=SOLANA) , FAT Airdrops, accessibility is top notch. PHANTOM wallet is easy to use.

HtPsycho

I wouldn't know about it because I haven't used any DEFI services other than PancakeSwap and UniSwap; and I've been fine for a few years.

CointestMod

#Nano Pro-Arguments Below is a Nano pro-argument written by Dwarfdeaths. > Copied from my post on the previous cointest thread: > > To start things off, I will take for granted that Nano is the best at simply being a digital currency. There is no other protocol that I’m aware of which matches the speedy, feeless, eco-friendly, and highly scalable properties of Nano for peer to peer payment. Its asynchronous mode of operation allows it to scale continuously as hardware and bandwidth improves over time. Its consensus protocol has so far proven secure and non-centralizing. The only flaw actually demonstrated in real life has been spam resistance, for which steps have been/are being taken to mitigate. When asked to envision a globally adopted cryptocurrency, Nano presents a clear solution. At the end of the post I will address some common arguments against Nano being good at digital cash, but otherwise I will move on to my main point. > > In the current landscape of crypto technologies, Nano’s functionality as *merely* digital cash can sound underwhelming. When confronted with the choice between a protocol that does digital money and a protocol that can potentially do “everything,” it’s easy to dismiss the money use case. On the contrary, I think being a good digital cash is absolutely critical and perhaps the only thing that matters long term. I have two main parts to my argument: First, most proposed uses for crypto are bad, and second, Nano isn’t incompatible with the good uses, and in fact is necessary for them to work. Before continuing I’ll note that Nano’s use case is not earth-shattering. For the average person in a modern country with the convenience of credit cards, it will make a pretty minor difference in their lives. For myself, it would have (a) saved me from paying an international wire fee while registering for a conference recently, and (b) would save the 3% credit card processing fee I paid at the DMV, as well as for all the businesses that normally foot this bill (which will probably be the main driver for adoption if it happens). Other things, like preventing the monopolistic control of payment processing (see OnlyFans) are also worth considering, and is one of the original motivations for bitcoin, but are less tangible. For countries without a stable currency it becomes a bit more serious as you're also inheriting a more usable currency than what your government can provide. So I think crypto has a chance to make marginal improvements over our existing system, and thus should be promoted, but isn't an earth-shattering breakthrough. > > Anyway. The first part of the argument is probably unpopular so let’s get it over with. **Most proposed use-cases of crypto(currencies) are bad.** This stems from the fact that a completely trustless, decentralized system can only agree on virtual information, such as opinions. Anything coming from the real world is subject to the “garbage in, garbage out” principle (also known as the oracle problem), or from enforcing anything that the ledger says on the real world. Money is one of the few things that is truly virtual (though, the exchange of goods is not!). In Nano, a transaction could be considered two people expressing the opinion that one should pay the other, and it is backed by their cryptographic signatures. Publishing and signing documents was one of the other earlier use cases for blockchains, and is essentially expressing your opinion that you agree with/to the document. A use-case like logistics or insurance or betting requires input from the real world. A block-chain can gather people’s opinions on whether some aspect of reality is true, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true, which means you have to trust people to accurately represent reality. So, not trustless. And if it’s not trustless, why did you bother making it a crypto app? When you boil it down, 'crypto' can only every let you add the properties of (decentralized, trustless, permissionless) to something that was already possible with software. If that doesn't add any benefit, either because those properties weren't needed or because there is a practical reason that those properties can't be attained, then the proposed use case is ultimately doomed. Let me quickly go through a list of the most commonly cited applications I’m aware of and why they are bad: > > - **Stablecoins** – irrelevant once a global cryptocurrency is adopted. > - **Lending** – definitely worthwhile if it could be done, but AFAIK you can never do **trustless, uncollateralized loans**, which almost entirely defeats the purpose. If your collateral is another ostensibly fungible currency, then there was no need for the loan. Loans in the typical sense will always be trusting and personally identifiable for the foreseeable future. > - **Yield farming, liquidity mining** - Zero sum nonsense. > - **Insurance** - garbage in garbage out. Sure you can write a contract that will handle your insurance plan, but you need an authority to establish what actually happened in the real world. Who is going to verify that your car got dented in a hit and run, or that your water damage bills are accurate, or that a dude actually died? > - **Logistics** - garbage in garbage out. Blockchain doesn't prevent some guy in the supply chain from tampering with or misreporting a shipment. If something goes wrong, you are still going to have to investigate and track down exactly what happened in the real world for any resolution. > - **Crowdfunding** - An actually useful concept, but governance is tricky because it must all be based on the opinions of the network participants. Who is the arbiter of the deliverables? Did the fundee actually make the thing they said they would? Can the crowd just stiff the fundee even if they delivered? I think this problem may be solvable on average, but not universally. As is often the case, this decentralized application need not itself be currency. > > - **Decentralized exchanges** - Largely irrelevant if a true global currency like Nano is adopted. These could be useful for exchanging between the fast P2P coin and a privacy coin like Monero, but that’s about it. See part two below for more clarification. There’s again no reason to make the DEX a currency itself. > > It may sound implausible that a platform like Ethereum can have so much traffic and have little to no real utility, but I think this is a byproduct of the influx of speculative money into the system. Most of the traffic is either speculation or speculation services. Much like a roulette wheel is a legitimate service to facilitate gambling, most of these smart contract functionalities are services that facilitate moving money around in increasingly obscure and ultimately useless ways. While roulette wheels will certainly never go away, I wouldn't expect them to gain global usage either. > > Now for the second part of the argument. Any cryptocurrency that can’t natively scale to **global, day-to-day, coffee-buying** adoption is not a good cryptocurrency. As stated above, one of the main motivations for cryptocurrencies existing is that they are trustless, permissionless, and censorship resistant. If you need to go to an exchange to turn your cryptocurrency into a spendable currency, you are now trusting the exchange, you are requiring permission from the exchange, and the exchange can censor your wishes to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy. You can shuffle between as many neat cryptos on a DEX as you want, but ultimately if you want to buy a coffee you either need a crpyto that can scale to coffee buying or you need a fiat exchange that breaks crypto properties. Nano is the coffee buying crypto. Bitcoin’s store of value argument is destroyed by the necessity of exchanges. A true store of value can be spent at any time, on anything, without fees or the need to interact with any third party. (Note: lightning network sacrifices crypto properties, so I’m ignoring it as a cryptocurrency. People are free to treat it like a cryptocurrency, but it’s not.) > > For the few useful decentralized applications that might exist, they can almost certainly be made to work with Nano as their settlement layer, if they need a settlement layer at all. (BitTorrent is a DApp that existed well before cryptocurrency...) Smart contracts can look at the Nano chain for proof that a payment has been made, and can execute payments on the Nano network. There’s no need to have a platform where transaction and execution of arbitrary programs are competing for the same computing resources, and it creates a harmful economic pressure on transacting that will eventually create pain points when the network is inevitably pushed to its throughput limits. The decision against smart contracts in Nano is a conscious one. > > So, putting these things together, I think the vast majority of crypto coins are a bad idea, incorporating DEFI functionality is adding little or no value, and that above all the use case that will fundamentally matter is still performance as digital cash. Any secondary applications will need this core functionality/adoption as the starting point, and none of the other existing protocols do it as well as Nano. > > In the reply below I will address a few common arguments against Nano working as digital cash. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Nano) to find submissions for other topics.

HtPsycho

Do everything that you've been doing up until now and nothing will happen. You don't even need a hardware wallet. Using DEFI **won't** cause you to lose your funds if you know what you're doing. If somebody told you otherwise then ask for personal example or experience. Many reputable CEXes have been around for a long time without anyone being robbed or anything. For me right now Binance, BingX, CoinBase, BitStamp are trustworthy. Basically do not click on any links and keep your private keys in your head (memorize your seed phrase). Don't use any unknown device to log into your account or use your wallet. And don't listen to people who tell you you will get robbed because you won't if you play it safe like you've been doing.

fuglyashell

If it’s DEFI. Probably a scam. Stay the fuck away

Twitxx

DEFI since 2020 AND crypto veteran? Dude, you are calling yourself a veteran after being in a field for only 3 years (not even working in it, you are a retail investor, a bottom feeder per se). You have seen one bullrun!!! Sit down and study the markets. Don't get TOO ahead of yourself, please.

bubbawears

People DCA ADA too tho, more than half of ADA buyers are longterm holders and longterm stakers and it's DEFI is going nuts

Hundegott

I am heavily invested in Kaspa and Taraxa because I believe that BlockDAG is a real technological innovation in this sector that stems from multiple years of academical research. I like Kaspa for it's sheer speed which is soon going to be even faster and that it can solve the trilemma in a sufficient manner. Also it can truly work as a stateless currency with almost instant transactions. Taraxa is a strong competitor to Kaspa having already working smart contracts and being 100% EVM compatible. An ETH bridge in the making coming out this spring. What I as a DEFI trader like most about the network is that the BlockDAG structure makes it impossible to front run trades with bots.

danteselv

If they sold 200k phones in a day they'd be arrested by the time the sun came up. This is a cool idea but DEFI isnt widely accepted enough for this to be a thing. With the way these assets are being regulated this seems like nothing more than a gimmick that will fadeaway after the devs stack up a few millions. Like clockwork.