BIP

zerolimits0

This was discussed here before if you search for duplicate word in seeds. The fact that duplicates exist actually increases the security as the usage of the words does not reduce the future pool of words to use. So in position 1 through 12 you have access to all words in the BIP39 standard, even if it is used more than once.

Z3non

Well, you can create a program to bruteforce seeds, the problem is, there are nearly as many seeds as atoms in the whole universe. Meaning your chance of finding a valid seed with funds is (nearly) impossible. It would be more probable to win for straight 10 years each day in the lottery. [Possible BIP39 seeds](https://ibb.co/XtFgHsF)

bittenbycoin

Maybe you can scramble up your seed words (with a couple of replacement words), give the scrambled words list to your benefactor while you are alive, and write in your will how to unscramble the seed phrase. A 24 word seed phrase would be wisest. For instance your could write in the will: Benefactors word 15 is actually the correct seed phrase word 1. Benefactors word list number 7 is actual seed word 2. Benefactor word 9 is NOT a seed word. Use the word "pupil" for correct seed phrase word 3. etc. etc. for all 24 words. My calculation is that if you scramble 21 of the words and use 3 other words in the BIP 39 list to complete the Benefactor list, that works out to around 5 * 10 ^^ 33 possibilities, so the benefactors would need to get busy to try and unscramble the words without the decoded list in the will. Of course, it would only take the lawyer and the benefactor to collude to steal from you while your alive, but at least neither could ever steal by themselves.

murkforgian

Yes, the passphrase adds entropy, but that's a dead-end path, because the additional entropy doesn't change the scope of the private key domain The purpose of the passphrase is to be entropy which prevents theft in the event that the seed phrase's entropy is compromised - in the human world. It's not consequential that it also increases the entropy of the BIP32 seed > mynode.local The .local domain is not publicly resolvable in the global DNS. Your instance of the mempool.space explorer is connected to your own node, so your mynode.local queries are completely within your own network, not visible to your ISP

fakehalo

I did 12 BIP38 encrypted wallets back in the day and embedded them into something online. I just have to remember a phrase and I know where to get them back.

Aerith_Gainsborough_

> you believe that Bitcoin is perfect and could not be improved? It has been improved several times in the past, and I am sure many will come in the future. Check BIP. >possible barriers for mass adoption The only thing well suited for the masses is religion.

brianddk

Not a question of a clever algorithm, but power. The smallest possible unit of power is the electron-volt 1 eV = 1.602177e-19 Joules So if you could get your algorithm clever enough to test each guess using only 1 eV, then it would still require 1.855e+58 Joules (5.15e+51 kWh) to attempt every seed. The entire sun only produces an instantaneous power output of 4.0e26 Watts. So you would need the entire power output of the sun for 410 years to perform the brute-forcing. That is assuming you could make a computer efficient enough to perform a BIP39 seed check using only one electron-volt.

Quantris

For question 1) The "binary seed" produced by BIP39 / used in BIP32 is 512 bits, as are all extended private keys (256 for the key + 256 for the "chain code") The set of seeds "accessible" without a passphrase should be a 256-bit subset of that overall universe, and adding a passphrase can "access" all of it theoretically. In other words, there's a pretty good chance that the seed you get using 24 words + some randomly generated passphrase is one that cannot be obtained using an empty passphrase. https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki#from-mnemonic-to-seed spells out the details of how the passphrase is used in the conversion from mnemonic phrase to binary seed. BIP39 explicitly limits the mnemonic to encoding 256 bits of entropy, though worth noting that it's easy to just extend that model to encode more. Though I wouldn't advise doing that since it won't be supported as a standard in anything (such support is the main reason to use mnemonic phrases IMHO).

FormCore

Question: I used a Electron / Electrum wallet a while back. Is there an easy way to access my keys with the passphrase without digging out the old executables? It's a standard right? BIP?

Yodel_And_Hodl_Mode

> Except then you have triple risk of discovery. I don't think you understand BIP85, and you might not fully understand multisig either. If somebody finds the seed, they'd need to know it's being used as a parent seed for BIP85 rather than used as a wallet. And they'd have to figure out which of the billions of possible BIP85 index numbers is being used to generate each child seed. And they'd need to know the seed length for each child seed. And they'd need to know how many keys are required for the multisig. And they'd need the wallet which already has the xpub set up for the multisig unless they manage to find all of the seeds required to rebuild the exact same multisig setup. It's not possible. On the other hand, for the owner of the multisig wallet, using BIP85 gives them extra security, knowing there's no fear of any of the multisig seeds being lost... because if any is lost, they (and only they) know how to regenerate them.

Yodel_And_Hodl_Mode

And use BIP85 with a parent seed with child seeds for multisig, so that if any of your multisig seeds is ever lost, the parent seed can generate them again. Then take the parent seed and make two metal backups. Keep one in a safe and the other in a safe deposit box.

Frogolocalypse

I like these 10 year reminders. 2014 was really the year where it became a viable technology for less sophisticated investors. Because of BIP39 and bitcoin seeds in late 2013, people didn't need to save electronic files anymore. They could write them down and safely store them. Right after that the first hardware wallets started getting out. 2014 was the year Bitcoin got into the public consciousness.

FabulousPossible5664

To answer your previous question further, if you were stuck on creating your own seed phrase out of the 2048 words used for BIP39, you can add any word or phrase at the end that you like to create a completely different wallet than if you just used the 12 words you pick, which would level up your security quite a bit.

BigDeezerrr

Good ideas. The problem is that you want to find a body of text that has as many of the BIP39 words in it as possible. For a song or poem, it seems like the word generation might have to happen before it's written. Large book volumes will likely have a significant proportion of the words as default. You could just find a poem with 11 or 23 of the words plus the last checksum word, but I'm sure security experts would discourage this over creating a truly random seed phrase over a larger pool of words.

FinanceOverdose416

Use a BIP39Plus key card to encode your seed phrases when you write them down. If someone sees the encoded seed phrases on a piece of paper, they won't know what the seed phrases are unless they know which key card you used to encode the seed phrases.

irisuniverse

Isn’t that a mixer? That has nothing to do with bitcoin private keys. My point is the government cannot ban private wallets or they’d have to ban the use of words in BIP39, which is simply impossible to do.

Corbimos

Go to the wallet, hit those 3 dots for more settings, and then export/backup. You will see a QR code. That QR is just a representation of the 12 words at the bottom. Write down those 12 words and keep them as a backup. This is your private key. Anyone who has these words will have access to your bitcoin. You can share that if you need the wallet on a different phone. But as stated before, do not keep this on your phone or computer. Bitcoin is a bearer asset with these words. You will be stolen from if any device is compromised. And keep these words safe in case you lose your phone. No, you won't need blue wallet specifically. It is a BIP39 standard. As long as the wallet supports BIP39 you will be good. Most good wallets do.

Full-Atmosphere-4818

In my view, unless one has a fear the government will get a warrant and take your BTC (relax, it is nowhere near that yet) or unless you are a company and do not want one person with all the responsibility, I think it is silly. A 12 word BIP-39 works just fine for 99% of people. Satoshi has 1,000,000 BTC and they have not moved since being mined. Meaning he still is using a paper wallet. Think about that.

The_Pirate_of_Oz

I'd setup some BIP-85 Uncle Jim style wallets for them. Say your wife could be index 83 (if she was born in 1983), and your children could be indices of their birth years. Then you can keep their addresses safe in the event that they forget them, or don't care.

DudeIncogneto

BIP47 is reusable payment codes for hd wallets. Wallets like Sparrow and Samourai allow you to create public facing payment code that you can send to a new receiving address is created without ever having to share it. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0047

Halo22B

Mobile Hot wallet with 200$ secured with a PIN (not biometric) no need to memorize the seed. The device stores the private key. Your trying to teach the kids best practices but substituting a small stack for life savings....it's never a good practice to memorize a seed, so why teach them that now. Personally I would create the seed using BIP85 functionality on your CC. Write the seed on paper, don't tell them you have a backup to the backup, and have them go through the whole process of creating/recovering a wallet and securing the paper/steel backup and emphasize the responsibility aspects.....if they screw up you always have your backup via BIP85.

B-ILL2

Did you make sure you restored it from the correct BIP? Send me your 12 or 24 word seed phrase and I will try to figure it out. I am serious and will send you everything to an address you control if I can recover them.

B-ILL2

Did you make sure you restored it from the correct BIP? Send me your 12 or 24 word seed phrase and I will try to figure it out. I am serious and will send you everything to an address you control if I can recover them.

XXsforEyes

Key is wasting some thief’s time. A working wallet with a couple sats in it would let them know it was a decoy. Something completely pulled out of your ass would (might?) have them trying the words backwards, and playing with different combinations, words from the BIP list before, after etc.

Pasukaru0

I have answered your questions. If you don't want to take my word for it fine. Maybe take the words of one of the authors of the taproot BIP, maybe that helps. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/14ozil5/comment/jqi4j10/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/14ozil5/comment/jqi4j10/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

CryGlass974

Also I found this on Bitaddresse.orgs..... BIP38 most likely will not work on mobile devices due to hardware limitations. But that was 8 years ago

murkforgian

There was an emergency in 2010 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident and 2013 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0050

Pasukaru0

> These three shorter passwords are indeed more secure because someone finding your obfuscated Someone finding the plate doesn't know the length of the passphrase either > password length for more than one password, protects more That is false. BIP39 passwords don't limit the lenght of the password. Using many small passwords bears the same entropy as using them as one long password instrad. > Second point, it doesn't add any complexity if you use the passphrase as one of the passwords Then it also doesn't increase security. > Third point: do you understand the concept of hints I am fully aware of the concept of hints. > Managing the password bears zero complexity because you don't have to manage it. Making up a strong password (or multiple) already is a non-zero complexity in itself. Adding the process to recovwring it adds even more to that. Don't make a fool of yourself. As I've said in my previous 2 comments, the complexity in regards to the password is the same in both cases.

AstroRoverToday

Your bitcoin isn’t in your wallet. It’s an encrypted entry on the distributed ledger (i.e., the blockchain). You only need the address and private key to own your bitcoin. Wallets just make it easier for you to view your address and use your private key. You don’t actually need a wallet. If you use the Ian Coleman BIP39 software (offline), you can derive your address and private key whenever you need them. Wallets just make that process more convenient.

fonaldduck099

Not a bad idea at all. You should check your seedphrase on a regular basis to make sure that the what happens in 10 years is not a thing. And make sure that the fake 12 are from the BIP 39 word list.

20seh

No. It does not imply that. There is more to firmware than just BIP39.

Comfortable-Rate-722

Thank you for your work for the crypto sphere, It may solve the custody problem for yourself and I hope it'll work for some others. I would like to develop 2 points why I would personally not adopt it: - Regardless of the implementation what you achieved it to replace hiding seed phrase + memorising passphrase with exposing a "deviated" seed phrase + 3 passwords, I have some security concern with this approach since anyone with this information (that you claim can be publicly exposed) just need access to you in a dark room to perform a 5$ attack. - In total, I think there is an overwhelming loss of BTC is due to error in custody management rather than hacking. If you agree on that, any non standard approach is a threat toward you Bitcoin. I would prefer to expose my Seed with very strong passphrase than using a - respectfully - far fetched non BIP backed approach. Personally I've adopted the following process (For the master Vault, I have pocket wallet for easy access) : - PrivateKey1 = Seed 1 (3 steel plates geographically independent in tempered proof plastic bag) + Passphrase1 (only in my head) - PrivateKey2 = Seed 2 (3 steel plates distributed to relatives) + Passphrase2 (delivered after I'm gone) - Wallet = multisig(2, PrivateKey1, PrivateKey2) - If tempered proof bags are compromised -> No access to fund without passphrase (and I know I have to change the seed1) - If I'm gone -> relative have access to crypto once they get the passphrase2 - If I'm physically threatened -> I do not have Seed1 with me Please feel free to challenge this process, self custody I alway about compromise and it's very rare you can gain security without giving up on flexibility.

AstroRoverToday

No template, but it includes: 1. Overview of key terms and concepts (Master seed phrase, child seed phrase, passphrase, address, private key) 2. Where to gather all the required items (master seed phrase from bank 1 safe deposit box, passphrase from bank 2, dedicated laptop or usb key with BIP39 software) 3. How to derive all items from Master Seed Phrase + passphrase (step by step with screenshot of what to type into each cell of BIP39 Ian Coleman software offline) 4. How to view balances 5. How to send Bitcoin

wh977oqej9

At the end, you HAVE to have some physical password or passphrase written somewhere. Nobody can 100% trust their brain. Only other solution is to put in the bank safe, where you can accers only personal with identifcation card. For me, seedphrase stamped into INOX, stored at multiple locations, works. In combination with BIP39 passphrase, stored in Bitwarden vault. But still, I have to have another hard copy of Bitwarden credentials. You can't run away from some hard copy.

Successful-Snow-9210

While it's true a HWW only needs the first four letters but I don't think that's a good idea because.... Recording only the first 4 letters of the words in a BIP39 recovery phrase may be risky even if it’s done on metal. This is especially true if storage media uses sliding tiles and/or screws or is made of or contains a soft metal like copper or aluminum. Jameson Lopp did extensive testing where he found many materials and methods suffered data loss from fire and/or corrosion and/or crushing. https://blog.lopp.net/a-treatise-on-bitcoin-seed-backup-device-design/ Stamping jig https://www.cryptocloaks.com/product/blockmitjig/ In all, there are 710 words or 34% of the BIP39 standard that become ambiguous if the first letter is lost and only the first 4 were recorded. Consider that recording only the first four of a 5 letter word loses 20%, a 6 letter 33%, 7 letters 43% and an 8 letter word loses fully ½ its meaning when truncated to 4. What If the calamity that the seedphrase backup is supposed to protect against also smudges,singes or destroys the first letter? Some examples: mushroom & push both become ush drastic, erase, trash & grass become ras Not much can be done about the 3 letter words such as fan, man & van that are reduced to "an"

Raverrevolution

Samourai makes a BIP84 wallet so choose 3.

Grumpy_Brother

Managed to find the "zero" balance. Had to do trial and error import for each of the three Advanced Segwit Options. After third attempt, with correct BIP, the correct balance appeared. Schweet! They will never take our freedom!!

DaSuj

I am having some issues recovering my wallet in Electrum. Was wondering if you could help me with my recovery of my samourai wallet Following the steps listed in this docs (Export to Electrum): [https://docs.samourai.io/wallet/restore-recovery](https://docs.samourai.io/wallet/restore-recovery) . I get to the point where i click "Detect Existing Accounts". I then get 3 options: 1. Standard BIP44 legacy 2. Standard BIP49 compatibility segwit 3. Standard BIP84 native segwit I have created a wallet in Electrum restoring each of these accounts, but my balance is 0 in all of them in Electrum. I also do not see my whole transaction history. I only see the history up to July 2023. I definitely had transactions in 2024.

Grumpy_Brother

I've tried doing the same, using Samourai seed phrase in new BIP 39 wallet, and "zero" balance showing. I know exactly where the last received transaction with full amount originated from, but showing zero balance in new wallet. Yikes! Unsure what to do now

20seh

BIP39 has nothing to do with the Bitcoin-only firmware. This is a special firmware, with less features, to make it less prone to (security) issues.

20seh

BIP39 has nothing to do with the reason for Bitcoin only firmware. It's firmware that only implements Bitcoin and is therefor less susceptible to (security) issues.

JustAd2122

As a dev, you should read the documentation. This obfuscation is not losing any security from the BIP39 seedphrase, you actually have better chances by randomly generating seed-phrases than trying to break this obfuscation. Maybe the term obfuscation misleading here, but I consider it not an encryption so... Obfuscation feels like a fitting term because it renders the seedphrase useless

ReasonableWarthog502

Same issue with Samourai, the balance was showing until some days ago but now it shows 0. Tried to export to other wallets, also using BIP39 and different derivation paths, but when imported there are 0 transactions and 0 balance.

adulbrev

I thing you are not correct. BIP39 dictionary are the same all over the internet. Personaly I was reffering to the GitHub Bip39 [https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt)

smithysmittysim

I'm looking at my private post-mix zpub key, is this the one I should import/sweep into mycelium? How do I do that? Can't find an import or sweep option in it. There are few more like pre-mix (not important, had all coins mixed), as well as post mix change (again, not important, few small changes). the post mix one is BIP84 Segwit.

The_Pirate_of_Oz

Totally, I fully understand BIP-39.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The OP_CAT proposal, aimed at introducing smart contract functionality to Bitcoin, has been assigned a Bitcoin Improvement Proposal (BIP) number, BIP 347. This marks a significant step in the process, allowing for more structured discussion and development around the proposal. OP_CAT, which was originally part of Bitcoin's code but removed by Satoshi Nakamoto in 2010, could enable more complex applications and multi-signature setups on Bitcoin by allowing transactions to set specific rules. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

BigDeezerrr

TLDR: I think I found enough of the BIP39 seed words in the first book I tested to randomly generate secure keys

raymonddurk

LMAO I look forward to the BIP

Cimexus

I don’t even use a seed phrase so, uh, I guess not? (I use Bitcoin Core, which predates/doesn’t support the BIP39 ‘seed phrase’. Encryption key is just a strong password instead.)

pwuille

Author of BIP32 here (which introduced xpubs). The whole point of xpubs is being able to derive all the addresses from there (except when you use hardened derivation). This means you can have an online wallet with just the xpub, and it can know about all the money coming in and going out, without needing access to the private key material.

BigDeezerrr

Find a book that contains most of the BIP39 words and then generate seeds and cross-reference them. Keep rolling until your seed words are all contained in the book you've chosen.

BigDeezerrr

Just to keep the thought experiment going, you could also find a text that has almost all of the 2048 words within it then keep generating seeds normally and cross referencing until you find one that matches. I'm sure if you expand the word list across an entire book series you could find some containing almost all possible BIP 39 words.

BigDeezerrr

I don't understand. For instance, I found that the text for "A Game of Thrones" has 1375 out of the 2048 usable BIP 39 words. Would there be harm in using a random number generator to draw 24 words from the list of 1375 at random?

BigDeezerrr

As an experiment I went ahead and downloaded the entire text of "A Game of Thrones" from [**this PDF**](https://www.nothuman.net/images/files/discussion/1/e72f9f1f181a66887baa7270037c582e.pdf) that I found online. I then downloaded the full list of BIP 39 words from [**here**](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt)**.** When I tokenize and join the 2 I see that 1375 out of the 2048 available words are present in the book. I can choose any 12 or 24 in whatever order I want and be able to see the pages. The full list of BIP 39 words contains a lot of common words in it. Below are the top 10 most recurring BIP 39 words and their counts in "A Game of Thrones" you that they have all when will one Here are some that only occur once: absent bubble cabin cake pottery

BigDeezerrr

As an experiment I went ahead and downloaded the entire text of "A Game of Thrones" from [**this PDF**](https://www.nothuman.net/images/files/discussion/1/e72f9f1f181a66887baa7270037c582e.pdf) that I found online. I then downloaded the full list of BIP 39 words from [**here**](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt)**.** When I tokenize and join the 2 I see that 1375 out of the 2048 available words are present in the book. I can choose any 12 or 24 in whatever order I want and be able to see the pages. The full list of BIP 39 words contains a lot of common words in it. Below are the top 10 most recurring BIP 39 words and their counts in "A Game of Thrones" || || ||||||||||||||||||||

WhaleFactory

"An extended public key, or xpub, is a public key which can be used to derive child public keys as part of a Hierarchical Deterministic (HD) wallet. An extended public key is a Bitcoin standard established by BIP 32 and is mainly used by a wallet behind the scenes in order to derive public keys." [Extended Public Key (Xpub) | River](https://river.com/learn/terms/x/xpub-extended-public-key/)

BigDeezerrr

As an experiment I went ahead and downloaded the entire text of "A Game of Thrones" from [**this PDF**](https://www.nothuman.net/images/files/discussion/1/e72f9f1f181a66887baa7270037c582e.pdf) that I found online. I then downloaded the full list of BIP 39 words from [**here**](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt)**.** When I tokenize and join the 2 I see that 1375 out of the 2048 available words are present in the book. I can choose any 12 or 24 in whatever order I want and be able to see the pages. The full list of BIP 39 words contains a lot of common words in it. Below are the top 25 most recurring BIP 39 words and their counts in "A Game of Thrones" || || |WORD|COUNT| |you|3267| |that|2331| |they|1474| |have|1174| |all|1019| |when|1012| |will|919| |one|806| |what|779| |there|714| |man|712| |this|697| |like|602| |hand|567| |now|523| |only|517| |father|512| |more|474| |off|455| |face|445| |over|443| |into|431| |know|426| |old|424|

murkforgian

Start with the mining chapter in Antonopoulos https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/ch12_mining.adoc The assignment spec assumes that you already understand all the mechanisms in principle, and are to apply your coding skills to your knowledge. Or, it's a 3-month or 6-month assignment, and the first job is to learn the concepts and mechanisms at a low level of detail From here, the specification is incomplete in not specifying which consensus rules are to be applied, not specifying the existence of a blockchain or UTXO database, and what value is required for previous block hash in the header Without UTXO db, you've no way to verify the right to spend. Optimistically, this is good, because it means you don't need to validate that The assignment spec implies you're to check each transaction as specified in its own JSON file. Optimistically, this also means you're not checking for double spending Small things ... Are the transactions Legacy or SegWit? Is the assignment expecting the block height to appear in the coinbase scriptSig (BIP34)? How to know the block height if your only data is a mempool transaction set?

BigDeezerrr

I wouldn't search any specific words. For instance, as an experiment I went ahead and downloaded the entire text of "A Game of Thrones" from [this PDF](https://www.nothuman.net/images/files/discussion/1/e72f9f1f181a66887baa7270037c582e.pdf) that I found online. I then downloaded the full list of BIP 39 words from [here](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt). When I tokenize and join the 2 I see that 1375 out of the 2048 available words are present in the book. I can choose any 12 or 24 in whatever order I want and be able to see the pages. There's no way anyone would know which ones I picked from downloading the full text.

dasmonty

yes, you only need the seed phrase to restore your wallet in any device or wallet app that support BIP39. The hardware wallet is just a helper. But security wise in case you lose it you should create a new seed phrase on a new offline hardware wallet and send the coins to al new safe address just in case.

oioioioioioioioioil

This is mad. Does this make BIP 300/301 redundant then?

Frogolocalypse

> BIP editors update: after public discussion (see Newsletters #292, #296, and #297), the following contributors have been made BIP editors: Bryan “Kanzure” Bishop, Jon Atack, Mark “Murch” Erhardt, Olaoluwa “Roasbeef” Osuntokun, and Ruben Somsen. That's a hell of a lineup.

TheGreatMuffin

> This week’s newsletter describes a proposal to relay weak blocks to improve compact block performance in a network with multiple divergent mempool policies and announces the addition of five BIP editors. Also included are our regular sections with selected questions and answers from the Bitcoin Stack Exchange, announcements of new releases and release candidates, and summaries of notable changes to popular Bitcoin infrastructure software.

analogOnly

Forget mnemonic code format. I don't even make use of BIP39. I still have my private keys in the old format.

Onad55

The wallet is just a convenience. To start your digital security you need to figure out how you are going to create, store and protect the seed that generates your private keys. The protocol must be a well established standard otherwise you could be locked into a single vendor where your recovery could be pulled out leaving you digital assets unreachable. You want to consider both the security that protects your keys from being obtained by undesired actors as well as redundancy that insures you or your designated representative will be able to recover your keys even after a disaster. There are a few standards that help store seeds and keys. Perhaps the best known is the BIP39 word list. This is a start but it creates a single point of failure. If you loose this list you loose access to your keys. You can make multiple copies but each copy is a critical security risk if someone were to acquire one. You can encrypt your seed with a passphrase before creating the wordlist but this creates another single point of failure if you forget the passphrase. A better method is to use a Shamir Split Secret. SSS splits a secret into multiple parts where any N of those parts can be used to reconstruct the whole. This is like multi-sig but is completely offline so no added network fees. One standard track implementation like SSS is SLIP-0036. I don’t know if this has received enough scrutiny to assure it is safe and effective. How you split and store the parts to your master seed is your own decision. Keep in mind who will have access to each of the parts and who might collude to attempt to assemble the seed against your wishes. The parts can be stored in safes, safe deposit boxes, be escrowed with friends or family or even be escrowed with a law firm. Each part should probably be sealed in a tamper evident enclosure. A simple security envelope should be sufficient. If any part is found to be compromised you have to start over creating a new seed, new keys, move all your assets and re-evaluate who you escrow the keys with.

aid00

Splitting BIP39 phrases is not a good idea for the reasons explained here: [https://youtu.be/p5nSibpfHYE](https://youtu.be/p5nSibpfHYE)

analogOnly

If you want my method, it's simple. A lot of people on this sub love the metal plates, but I don't. Let me first start off with a fact, I don't have a mnemonic code (BIP-39) "seed phrase", "seed words" etc.. whatever the kids are incorrectly calling it these days. I have a private key. My private key is encrypted (there are several options including just creating a password protected compressed file (zip, rar, etc..) My method works for both private key formats. On an OFFLINE machine, put your key/code into a text file and zip it with a password. Put that zipped file on **multiple** fresh USB sticks. Keep the USB sticks in **different** locations. You could even trust friends with them because of the fact that they are encrypted. With this method some of the USBs can get lost, stolen, or destroyed and you're still fine. The encryption buys TIME. Once I lost one. I took my time - transferred the coin to a new wallet and repeated the backup steps and replaced 6 USB sticks. This is the best fault proof method that works for me. It is not a cold wallet, it is a backup strategy. When you are ready to sell or move coin, you import the key into a new wallet (on an OFFLINE machine or hardware wallet). When you are ready to move stuff, you send some amount to a hot wallet to be spent or sold.

Massive-small-thing

Your friend is thinking along the lines of Moore's law. Every 18-24 months capacity and processing power virtually double. But the basic computer stays the same. As we've seen and will continue to see, new improvements in the processing and capacity of bitcoin are happening in the form of BIP's (bitcoin improvement proposals) but Bitcoin itself stays the same.

falcofox64

Bitcoin is a protocol with an emaculant conception so to speak in that we don't know who created it which it also one of the features. Bitcoin is also adaptable through BIP's with out sacrificing the core protocol that makes it what it is. According to coinmarketcap there are currently 2.4 million crypto's all trying to be better than Bitcoin yet none of them even come close. The core rules ( protocol ) are Bitcoin. The techonolgy to impliment these rules will continue to get better.

rizzobitcoin

Yes, I'm aware of the DarkFi project. I haven't followed it super closely. What can you say. Your favorite bands will go on to release bad albums, that's life. It doesn't make the old albums any less great IMO I still think in terms of popularizing hacktivist culture within Bitcoin, Amir was an early and positive force within Bitcoin. As an advocate for a conservative development process, creator of the BIP process, he contributed so much. But yeah, Kiss did disco

embcrypt

You seem to be talking absolute nonsense, but nice try. 1. Bitcoin had no monetary value in January 2009, and was not available for purchase. 2. HD wallets didn't exist in 2009. BIP39 was introduced much later. It has never been implemented in Bitcoin Core (the only wallet available in 2009). The wallet.dat stores the keys. There is no separation between wallet.dat and "keys". 3. Why do narcissists insist on inventing ridiculous stories around early Bitcoin experiences? Perhaps you think it makes you interesting but truly it's pathetic.

LIGHTLY_SEARED_ANUS

Pretty much the same reason we write code with words instead of 1s and 0s (aka binary). The only thing unique about this case is each wallets password is pre-set and unchanging. BIP39 just formalised which words refer to which 1s and 0s. So instead of typing in a jillion 1s and 0s, you can type in "dog cat butt fart" which gets converted into those same 1s and 0s. That's why seed phrases are used. They turn the "seed" (aka, your password in 1s and 0s) into recognisable words. (And yes, I'm aware keys are represented with hexadecimal; they inevitably gets converted to binary eventually anyway. Hexadecimal is basically just more complicated seed phrases for representing binary.)

Corbimos

You would still have the seed backed up for the hardware wallet. It should be a compatible BIP39 seed, so you could restore to any hot wallet in a pinch if needed. If the HWW breaks, you still have your seed and your funds. The HWW's job is to keep the keys offline, while still being able to send transactions easily.

shostakofiev

Your "password" in this sense is 256 bits. To get that type of security in a traditional password, it would have to be 32 characters, and enforced randomness (prettypurpleelephantinatuxedo69! is 32 characters, and easy to remember, but a lousy password). In a BIP39 seed phrase, every word represents 11 bits, so 24 gets you 264 bits which has 256 plus 8 for a checksum. Not only does this get you true randomness, but there are other advantages. Memorizing 32 words isn't easy, but it's a lot easier than 32 alphanumeric and special characters. The checksum gives you some recovery ability - if you have 23 words there are only 8 possibilities for the last one, so some software can recover your phrase if you are off by a word or two. Only the first three letters matter - and so they are unique on the list. So if your word is "bread", and your handwriting makes it look like "break," it won't matter.

K42st

The BIP for any sortware change is voted for and 95% consensus must be reached for that or those changes to be implemented if they don’t reach that figure then a fork of the chain will be implemented creating another chain with the new software implemented.

K42st

No that’s also incorrect you are confusing a 51% attack on the blockchain with a BIP which is a Bitcoin Implementation Proposal and it is that BIP that is the voting mechanism to change or add code, it takes 95% or more of the miners and nodes on the network to signal for that change so 95% is a lot of the vote.

StephanCom

here's a randomly generated example of what that word list would look like, called a "BIP39" code: allow stem brush insane unhappy slush purpose idea leopard split music lady clutch foam census twenty lazy dismiss junior metal raw recall grape base

how_anonymous_can_1b

Woah thanks for sharing. Biggest update IMO is BIP324 being enabled by default. This allows nodes to communicate in a more secure fashion!

brianddk

Out of curiosity, I went ahead and reviewed how Electrum does hardware wallet passwords. Basically it's the public key from the derivation `m/4541509'/1112098098'`. Here's a minimal bit of code to do the decode, assuming you can find the XPUB at that derivation. # python -m pip install setuptools==65.5.0 pip==21 wheel==0.38.1 # pip install libsecp256k1-0 electrum[crypto]@git+https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum.git@4.5.2 from libsecp256k1_0 import * from electrum.storage import WalletStorage from electrum.bip32 import BIP32Node DERIVATION = "m/4541509'/1112098098'" WALLET_FILENAME = 'default_wallet' storage = WalletStorage(WALLET_FILENAME) if storage.is_encrypted(): if storage.is_encrypted_with_hw_device(): # https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ # https://appdevtools.com/base58-encoder-decoder XPUB = 'xpub6ECc2hG3eExuXKFPxnfUkUuGPGcgrJoHMhej82VDRTFAe9syWg75QiWaKVC2rDnz567HNPSfjpPf74bfzgUMBSbeCbBRiL3DuJsx78J2W19' xpub = BIP32Node.from_xkey(XPUB) password = xpub.eckey.get_public_key_hex() storage.decrypt(password) else: print("no password provided") print(storage.read())

Brown_Noiser

Do your own research. Bitcoin is amazing but don't take my word for it. Go read on Bitcoin.org. Research how to start your own node (you don't have to implement, just learning how it works is cool). Lookup the hash rate of the Bitcoin network vs. the combined computing power of Amazon and Google. Learn about how the network is secured and how long it would take to brute force guess someone's private keys. Learn how to manually generate your own private key and then convert that into BIP39 seed phrase (again you don't have to implement, just learning it should amaze you).

juanddd_wingman

Yes. He provide me an P2PKH address. I checked against a Bitcoin explorer and eventually there is funds there. I can generate addresses using BIP44 derivation paths and checked if there is a match.

simonmales

> Me, being a programmer Ok cool! > I wrote a Rust program that runs through the combinations, gets the seed, master key, and derives the private and public key of each combination using BIP32 and BIP44. I worry you are reinventing the wheel. Have you dived into BTCRecover? [https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/INSTALL/](https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/INSTALL/)

Dettol-tasting-menu

You assumed wrong I’m afraid Most wallets follow BIP39 and are cross compatible. Just enter the seed phrase it should show up.

juanddd_wingman

Ohh thanks for the clarification. I found a Rust library that implements the BIP39 and have some utilities to verify and parse seed words. There is quite a lot of possible candidates

aimoony

you can use RPA but it would be pretty slow. Instead try this: In a BIP-39 mnemonic phrase, the last word is a checksum, which helps verify the integrity of the seed. To validate the checksum: * Convert the mnemonic back to the binary seed it represents. Each word corresponds to an 11-bit value, and the entire phrase encodes a single binary number. * The first 256 bits of this number represent the entropy used to generate the phrase, and the last bits (the length depends on the entropy size) are the checksum. * Compute the checksum of the entropy and compare it to the checksum part of the binary sequence. They should match if the seed is valid.

AstroRoverToday

IMO, a novice should take the time to learn about seed phrases (including Master and Child Seed Phrases via BIP85 indexes, and Pass Phrases), Addresses and Private Keys, and all the security knowledge that goes along with self-custody.

AstroRoverToday

I understand what you mean. To me, hardware wallets are only needed if you plan to make frequent transactions or you to need to interact with your funds for some reason. If you’re just going to HODL, as long as you know your Master Seed Phrase, you can derive your Address and Private Key anytime you need it using the BIP39 Mnemonic tool (offline, of course).

opreturn_net

A utxo is just a transaction hash (txid) and output index (vout). You can get these from a block explorer. Use the txid and vout to build the raw transaction with ./bitcoin-cli createrawtransaction ./bitcoin-cli help createrawtransaction createrawtransaction [{"txid":"hex","vout":n,"sequence":n},...] [{"address":amount,...},{"data":"hex"},...] ( locktime replaceable ) Create a transaction spending the given inputs and creating new outputs. Outputs can be addresses or data. Returns hex-encoded raw transaction. Note that the transaction's inputs are not signed, and it is not stored in the wallet or transmitted to the network. Arguments: 1. inputs (json array, required) The inputs [ { (json object) "txid": "hex", (string, required) The transaction id "vout": n, (numeric, required) The output number "sequence": n, (numeric, optional, default=depends on the value of the 'replaceable' and 'locktime' arguments) The sequence number }, ... ] 2. outputs (json array, required) The outputs (key-value pairs), where none of the keys are duplicated. That is, each address can only appear once and there can only be one 'data' object. For compatibility reasons, a dictionary, which holds the key-value pairs directly, is also accepted as second parameter. [ { (json object) "address": amount, (numeric or string, required) A key-value pair. The key (string) is the bitcoin address, the value (float or string) is the amount in BTC ... }, { (json object) "data": "hex", (string, required) A key-value pair. The key must be "data", the value is hex-encoded data }, ... ] 3. locktime (numeric, optional, default=0) Raw locktime. Non-0 value also locktime-activates inputs 4. replaceable (boolean, optional, default=true) Marks this transaction as BIP125-replaceable. Allows this transaction to be replaced by a transaction with higher fees. If provided, it is an error if explicit sequence numbers are incompatible. Result: "hex" (string) hex string of the transaction Examples: > bitcoin-cli createrawtransaction "[{\"txid\":\"myid\",\"vout\":0}]" "[{\"address\":0.01}]" > bitcoin-cli createrawtransaction "[{\"txid\":\"myid\",\"vout\":0}]" "[{\"data\":\"00010203\"}]" > curl --user myusername --data-binary '{"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id": "curltest", "method": "createrawtransaction", "params": ["[{\"txid\":\"myid\",\"vout\":0}]", "[{\"address\":0.01}]"]}' -H 'content-type: text/plain;' http://127.0.0.1:8332/

fraGgulty

Same seed with passphrases for each of their wallets. Give them the seeds, put passphrases in will. If you aren't worried about them stealing from each other, make the passphrases the same, say 10 words from the BIP list, but affix their birthdays to the end of the passphrase. In this scenario the passphrase has to be strong because you're giving them the seed before hand. The passphrase (quick-brown-fox-jumps-over-the-lazy-dog-another-word-7-04-1969) is for the one born on 4th of July 1969 (quick-brown-fox-jumps-over-the-lazy-dog-another-word-12-25-2001) is for the one born Christmas 2001. Quick brown fox ~ is a terrible passphrase but you get what I'm getting at.

cryptokid2140

No. I did not use a different wordlist. I don’t think you have a technical understanding for me to be able to explain. But read the BIP and re-read my previous replies it’s pretty clear what I said

Nemozoli

Sooooo.... you generated the generator with a different BIP39 wordlist? What gives? Are the original words not good enough for you? Yes, you can make up your own wordlist, but I just fail to see the reason why.

i_am_starborn

Honestly I am beginning to see that from a few of the replies. This place has turned into a cesspool. It’s amazing. It used to be a really good source of info when folk like Maxwell spent their time here, and when the convo was around BIP’s and associated debates. What the hell has this place turned into 😳 But I suppose you’re right. The get-rich-quick brigade are here for a minute, and will be gone when we go down 87%+ again.

LowFan3607

BIP-39 is just the protocol with the 2048 words that form the private key.

riscten

The 24-word mnemonic (aka. *seed* phrase) is different from the passphrase. The passphrase is an additional, custom word you can add on top of the 24 words to further increase the security of your setup. [This goes over more details.](https://www.blockplate.com/blogs/blockplate/what-is-a-bip39-passphrase) If you have a mnemonic and optional passphrase, it is possible to restore your wallet on the vast majority of wallets, including most hardware wallets, Electrum, Nunchuk, etc. Also, in the context of Bitcoin Core, the term "passphrase" doesn't refer to a BIP39 passphrase. It's a local password used to decrypt your wallet.dat file.

celtiberian666

In their website they say the legacy seeds are BIP39 and newer ones are BIP44. I think they did used their own system when they started. Maybe OPs wallet is really old?

celtiberian666

Is that the case? In their website they say the legacy seeds are BIP39 and newer ones are BIP44. OP should try to use the seed in a BIP39 wallet.

Equal-Math-7524

No he doesn't have an actual seed or what we call seed phrase what he has with blockchain is a web based seed that only works on their website and not BIP39 seed

na3than

No method--not a hardware wallet, not coin flips, not dice rolls--will use 256 bits of entropy when creating a twelve word mnemonic. You'd need a word list of more than 2.6 million words, and unless you know without a doubt you'll be able to find the exact same numbered list in the future to decode it, you'd be a fool to even try. [The allowed size of entropy in a BIP-39 mnemonic is 128 to 256 bits.](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki#user-content-Generating_the_mnemonic). A twelve word mnemonic from a list of 2048 words can't possibly use more than 132 bits of entropy.

simonmales

BIP39 spec allows it.