ETF

OkIllustrator8380

BTC acts a better saving than cash. Any indicator that shows inflation is supporting the underlying premise for holding BTC. Yes raising it holding rates high reduces liquidity. When they drop rates and the money printer go brrrr that to supports BTC. It's a catch 22 that highlights the failures of fiat. ETF cannot be priced in. You cannot price in the reduction in available supply when more participants hold. You are looking at a few days of info. BlackRock and all the major banks are increasing accessibility to the ETFs and will stay investing from their other funds in it. (It's a double dip on management fees for them).

user_name_checks_out

> The ETF holder would likely right it off *write

Boogyin1979

Coinbase has $400 Million in total insurance. That represents about 1% of the $40 Billion of customer funds that are sitting on their platform. Investing in an ETF where Coinbase is the custodian also shares that risk with all the other altcoins offered on the platform.

AddressWinter3046

On-chain metrics exist but order books are typically not on-chain. Everyone has access to it at the same time on the exchange anyways. You could look at exchange inflows:outflows, ETF inflows:outflows, amount of Bitcoin produced per day, number of new private wallets with positive balance and the sizes of those balances etc This could give you the image you are trying to find

someoneSomewhere2973

The ETF fee is proportional to price.

Reach_Beyond

The investor does not take on risk of that loss. It’s the same way if you bought a gold ETF and it was discovered they last the entire ETF gold backing while shipping it to a new vault. It’s called SIPC, similar for FDIC but for investments, which would protect the individual. The ETF holder would likely right it off, take a loss, or if they can blame an asset holder like Coinbase they’d sue them for losses. It probably wouldn’t be completely detrimental for the underlying asset.

TheDefiantOne19

Bruh The etfs don't give actual bitcoin, you don't own anything other than the ETF, which is essentially bullshit (Etfs for stocks offer ownership in the companies held. The bitcoin etf offers ownership in literally nothing, since you have to actually hold the coins to OWN them.) The etf is just another way for MMs to manipulate price bitcoin on a mass scale, with a lot less effort, and with limited downsides. Buy bitcoin. Otherwise, you're just another idiot helping the whales buy up the limited supply🙄😂💀 Wolf of Wall Street pointed it out pretty blatantly. The name of their game isn't to make us money. It's to transfer wealth from you to them When you buy the etf, you literally just give your money to them, so they can own more bitcoin, and you get squat, idk what's so hard to understand about that

ElderBlade

Self custody holders will be chillin. Everyone else who bought the ETF instead of the real thing will get rekt .

No-Virus9420

I've never ever thought of Blackrock liquidating the ETF, that'd be scary for sure. My thoughts were more in the field of "maybe they want to keep the price lower to make a few miners unprofitable until they're bankrupt'ed so bigger (prob Blackrock owned) companies get an edge by buying these broken mining companies and now that they own the entire supply chain, they can now pump it.

complexmessiah7

People investing in the ETF -> ETF provider buys the underlying asset -> Good for the asset. The opposite happens for a sell. In any given time period (in this discussion we're talking about a given day), if there are more orders to buy than to sell, that's a net 'inflow'. The opposite is an 'outflow'. Greyscale is a relatively early ETF option for Bitcoin, however it has high fees, and now there are better options available. So a lot of people were leaving the platform (thereby creating a lot of 'outflow'). On Friday there was a net inflow, which is out of the ordinary for Greyscale, and therefore it made news.

Starlit_Mountain

clients buy and sell shares when they want to. ETF managers buy and sell Bitcoin when they want to.

P_e_a_s_h_o_o_t_e_r

If you want to buy bitcoin really quickly, you can probably also buy a bitcoin ETF through your current broker where you invest in the S&P 500. This allows you to immediately have exposure to bitcoin, yet you now have the possibility to learn about bitcoin at your own pace without missing out on any gains.

Amber_Sam

>and I’m thinkin could I have bought at 56 and then sold at 64 for a 8k profit in like a span of 5 days? You would also have 0 bitcoin. That's not why we're here. >My end goal will be to hold a least 1btc forever Then don't try to sell it for 5% gains. > but I’m curious if there’s short term gains I could be making by buying the dips and selling when it’s a few grand up? That's the best approach if your plan it to have less bitcoin. We all have been where you're, read my guide and make sure to learn along you go. Congrats on the move, it's never too late. ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money book. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick and read this short guide, please: **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Bitcoin to me, is a savings account. If I have some spare cash, I exchange it for sats. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dca.bitnob.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting. Now, don't buy a fake Bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. A few good wallet choices: [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. Lightning wallets to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill or LN Pizza Hardware Wallets (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. Use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, less new user friendly but there are great tutorials to help with setting it up. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor) [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, etc. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners and look for the answers.

RickandMowgli

Ding ding ding. Nobody is getting an ETH ETF before Blackrock. Look for an approval when theirs comes around.

mrjune2040

BTC ETF's weren't with us in 2021, I wouldn't be assuming a x6 premium for MSTR. And although 2-3x BTC price is possible it's probably on the upper range of projections, and you should also assume decent downside risk in that period too. Feels like an unnecessary gamble of a trade tbh.

Glass-Spite8941

Can someone explain ETF inflow vs outflows to me please?

Kh4otik

For sure. I would never put the sole blame on DCG and Grayscale. That would be overly simplifying that entire scenario. I just wanted to share another reason for people's negative outlook on Grayscale and that it goes deeper than their high ETF expense ratio.

kpooo7

Well to quote the article you site there was plenty of blame to go around “As I mentioned in the previous article, there is plenty of blame to go around for why GBTC became such a toxic wrecking ball for the broader cryptocurrency industry. You can blame the crypto lenders for their shockingly poor risk management. You can also blame hedge funds and institutional investors for putting on extremely risky trades with obscene amounts of leverage. You can blame Genesis/DCG for providing the leverage in the first place to pump its revenues. Lastly, you can blame the SEC, which denied Grayscale from converting GBTC into a spot Bitcoin ETF for years, which would have eliminated the market inefficiency and better-protected investors”. So DTC was making money legally and FTX and others were over leverage or crooks, sounds like 2008 all over again.

Kh4otik

While Grayscale (and its parent company, DCG) survived the bloodbath that occurred over these past 2-3 years, the GBTC Trust (now ETF) was at the center of that crypto contagion. They enabled those same companies and people who scammed, went to jail, etc. to take risky leverage when it was at a high premium but then destroyed those companies after it became heavily discounted. That entire episode gave a lot of people a negative image of Grayscale, DCG, and Genesis (Grayscale's sister company). Sources: [Part 1](https://www.swanbitcoin.com/gbtc-was-the-genesis-of-the-crypto-credit-contagion/) [Part 2](https://www.swanbitcoin.com/gbtc-credit-contagion-part-ii/)

Zestyclose_Acadia_40

You're completely ignoring a few points which dictate the market flows. Namely, the israel/iran conflict that caused the recent market volatility, and the general trend that bitcoin dips post-halving every single cycle. There seems to be a 'sell the news' event associated with the halving, and from that dip onward it's typically up, slow and steady. I guarantee you that the ETF sellers at the big institutions are pitching this data to investors (including the post-halving dip) and we'll continue to experience the well-known trends as usual. Just wait til August, and reassess at that time. We may be mid-bull and at that point I would say start averaging out

DA2710

Already giving up on the ETF’s that was quick. Everything you write indicates it would be better for you to sell and take profits. You will not be a long term holder

RTOmorelikeRTNo

If it makes you feel better, bitcoin pumping or crashing isn't really going to make a big difference for ETF issuers, since they mainly make money off fees. In the short term, we'll probably see some extra volatility as a new wave of people experience BTC volatility, but this is hardly new for someone who has been here for a few years. At the end of the day, liquidating these ETFs they spent so much effort trying to get approved isn't something in their interest for the foreseeable future.

kpooo7

I get the comments regarding their fees but why the hate? I have been in Grayscale GBTC and ETHE in my 401 since 2021, in it for the long term, grayscale was the only big holder of Crytpo that was not a scam, go to jail, BK etc., thru the last winter. I will look at changing platforms eventually, we will see how the new ETF’s change rates, fold etc.

OderWieOderWatJunge

Total ETF inflow balance is negative for at least a week now: [https://farside.co.uk/?p=1321](https://farside.co.uk/?p=1321)

ResponsibilitySea327

Grayscale is a bit unique to other ETFs. They were a trust that held BTC deposited by accredited investors (many of which were institutions). That BTC was prohibited from being sold due to the bylaws of the trust. The deposits were exchanged for shares of the trust (which in turn were locked for 12 months). Ftx, Genesis and other exchanges had deposited BTC there in exchange for shares, which at the time traded at a significant premium. It was free money (50% return) which ultimately distorted the market and caused massive over leveraging. It is theorized that Grayscale has as much to do with the collapse as anyone. Ultimately the premium turn negative before the crash and the crash itself crushed the trust. FTX and Genesis went bankrupt and all those shares were locked via bankruptcy proceedings. With the trust converting to an ETF that BTC was now sellable. With the market returning to positive levels, retail started realizing profit and selling ETF shares (or converting it to a lower cost fund), hence outflows n And with creditors finally winning relief from the bankruptcy courts they also began selling en masse (likely required to sell as cash versus in-kind). It all results in negative pressure.

KPTA-IRON

When you read it you will regret buying the ETF though.

OderWieOderWatJunge

[https://de.cointelegraph.com/news/blackrock-bitcoin-etf-first-outflow-day-etfs-record-outflows](https://de.cointelegraph.com/news/blackrock-bitcoin-etf-first-outflow-day-etfs-record-outflows) I think the ETF might be not as popular as we were hoping. What do you guys think? The ETF is priced in but without inflows, will there still be a bigger bull run?

Visara57

As far as I'm aware, their fees are still at the same price. How are people buying into their ETF ?

Prize_Dentist3395

Both. You can think of it like this: 1. A person wants to buy 1 BTC worth of ETF shares 2. Greyscale creates the shares and sells them 3. Now Greyscale is short 1 BTC in its treasury that backs the ETF 4. Greyscale buys 1BTC to balance the books It's more complex than that, but that's the gist. Look up ETF creation and redemption

forgotmypassword4714

In April they said they were gonna have a mini trust BTC ETF with a 0.15% fee but idk if that's available yet or not.

TheFlamingoPower

So it is not in his interest that they approve ETH ETF 😂

nachtraum

It's the clients, the individuals who own ETF shares

Karl_Mad

The fewer Whales the less volatility. I think system need 10 more years to change distribution. Consentration should be in hands of investors that own 0.1-10 BTC and the whales should be not individuals but only institutional investors such as ETF, pension funds.

georgke

This is actually a good sentiment. When looking at the whole Gamestop saga, it is clear that there is massive manipulation going on from the big financial institutions on the stock market. I also worry that they will manipulate the price of BTC with the ETF's. But it's still better then FIAT money by all metrics.

Halo22B

Your use case is why the ETF was created....go nuts. Just a tip....give "Broken Money" or "The Bitcoin Standard" a read.

Personal_Guidance18

Congrats, glad to see you are seeing strong returns, and I love the detail of your post. For now I’m sticking with [stocks with ETF strategies](https://www.alphaai.capital/etf-strategies-with-high-leverage), but maybe I will get into crypto at some point.

RizzoStaxx

Did you buy ETF or off a bitcoin exchange? Real bitcoin is far more valuable. Buy off an exchange and put onto a hardware wallet - signing device - for security.

unnone

It really comes down to your trust of your establishment. An ETF might have SIPC(or your country equivalent insurance) which I'd argue is "safer" than you holding your own cold wallet, assuming you're government isn't going anywhere and you dont forsee the gov changing their mind and closing down ETFs leading to sell offs you cant control or something(not sure what would really happen here) As BTC goes up and it becomes a larger portion of my wealth I certainly feel like I need to spread the risk out from single wallet to multiple and maybe even some of it into ETFs.  Still, if it's your keys, you can't lose it unless you fuck up, and that can't be said about ETFs/exchanges. 

conceiv3d-in-lib3rty

Even if the ETF does get denied, Ethereum is going to be okay lol.

disparue

I just have some ETF exposure, so when the jobs report dropped and S&P futures and BTC popped at the same time it was really noticeable.

analogOnly

Awesome OP, i think this is great. Could you publish rhe amount of shares for each ETF = 1BTC? i think would be useful to see.

FunWithSkooma

my man, btc will value more than any $$ in your 401k. The problem is the ETF is not btc, and tbh, I think Bitcoin ETFs will be the biggest rugpull ever on Bitcoin.

FunWithSkooma

ETF is not Bitcoin

Fajarsis

No Fed rate hike + HK Bitcoin ETF Kicked in..

TheExpensiveGoogle

Didn't know Saylor worked on ETF approvals...

DeadL

The sanest choice is to max your 401k and Roth contributions first. Then decide how you would want to gamble the rest. A popular ETF would easily get you 7%+ a year with little chance to completely wreck you. Bitcoin could go up 100%+ then down 75% and crab for two years, etc. Trying to play the market (stock or bitcoin) isn’t commonly successful in the short term so whatever you do should have a justification that’s long term.

pdlvw

A lot of questions. Only an authorized participant (AP) deals with an ETF issuer to create and redeem shares. The AP gives money to the issuer, the issuer buys bitcoin and hands it over to the trust. The trust hands it over to the custodian. After that process, the ETF issuer hands over the new created shares to the AP. The AP sells the shares on the second market.

siviconta

SEC will reject the ETF. But there will bu lwasuit they will eventually accept it.

pjrylander

BTC never relied on ETF flows in the past. If anything this would mean uncertain times for the ETFs, not for BTC

HeavyHand-Ed

Fink says they can still make it an ETF despite it being classified a security.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin's valuation has been declining, recently dropping below $60,000, but it has started to recover, approaching $62,000. The first day of net outflows from BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF indicates a shift in market dynamics. Historically, the 100 days following Bitcoin's halving event have been volatile, and current economic conditions suggest that interest rate cuts, which could boost Bitcoin, are unlikely soon. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Raikaru

Their ETF isn't even up for it's approval deadline until like August i think

Wendysmanager24

Where are the BEARS???? WHERE IS 52K FOLKS I DONT SEE IT I gotta be honest with you fellas the last two days had me a little shaken but it's important to remember that my FAITH IS MY SHIELD and that 2 days is just a little blip in the grand scheme of this BULL RUN that we are in. Absolutely incredible that 60k is such a rock solid bastion for us, nearly IMPENETRABLE. With such factors like the ETF and the halving working in our favor and the PATRON SAINT OF THE ECONOMY JPOW watching over us this year is going to be a great year for the bulls fellas. Life changing money BULLS WIN BTC 150K EOY AVAX TO 300

NightKnight_CZ

Litecoin ETF as #2 here we go.

piemat94

How exactly PoS coin could get ETF? Cardano? Ripple? Solana? It would pump the price insanely high and then insiders could just dump what they were holding. I may be wrong of course and if so, correct me. I'm eager to learn new things and perhaps it's going to be much more controlled in terms of ETFs.

satoshiwife

You need to look at BlackRock's ETF approval rate which is more than 99%, the only ETF which was denied was because BlackRock wanted a transparency on trading.

LevitatingTurtles

I think the market response really depends on if the ETF products can provide a staking yield to ETF shareholders. If they cannot, then there is very little differentiation for ETH from BTC. If yield is available... ETH will explode. Wall street loves yield.

LevitatingTurtles

The SEC will make the 'safe' decision and deny it. They will be sued and they will lose. They will not appeal (like they didn't appeal the BTC ETF ruling) Then they can say "not my fault... the courts made me do it" Regulation through litigation. So brave.

HauntingBrick8961

There is already an Aussie ETF. The fee is high but at least it's something

dimi727

Who cares. This is prices in, nobody is expecting the ETH ETF to be approved anymore any time soon .. It can only surprise now in my opinion

HauntingBrick8961

Just a reminder of the bullish conditions - new HK ETF live, UK ETF by end of month, rate cuts possible by end of year. Korea ETF - maybe ?

itllbefine21

But does that matter? I just checked cause I didn't know and it seems ETF can be created on securities. So why does that matter then? To me the distinction is you know which ETF are based on commodities or securities or I guess a mix? Either way the ETF is collecting fees and the purchaser is the one who needs to cover his ass. As always.

_blockchainlife

So Blackrock is going to get their second ever ETF rejection?

DegenerateWins

Most people in the space think the ETH ETF will be declined this month, even lots and lots of ETH maxis. If it gets accepted ETH is going to rocket up as the commonly held assumption at this point is a rejection.

Similar_Scar7089

Coinbase holds the ETF crypto

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Nas Daily, a video producer, featured Binance CEO Changpeng Zhao and FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried in videos. Zhao admitted to violating U.S. anti-money laundering laws, resulting in a $4.3 billion fine for Binance. Amidst controversy, Nas Daily removed the video of Bankman-Fried following his company's bankruptcy speculations. Despite these issues, experts predict positive developments for the cryptocurrency industry, including a potential bull run and ETF approvals. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

ThatOtherGuy254

Didn't they just approve a leveraged futures ETH ETF? It's going to be hard to justify a spot ETF rejection if they did.

satoshiwife

He thinks the SEC will reject BlackRock's ETF? BTC Maxis are so ignorant

HumbleRush1267

Definitely. I think that when the rate cuts are in sight, the ETF inflows starts gathering pace. Until then, we are very likely to see a lot of sideways movement.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Michael Saylor predicts that the SEC will classify Ethereum (ETH) as a security and reject all spot Ethereum ETF applications. He also expects similar security classifications for other major cryptocurrencies like Binance Coin, Solana, Ripple, and Cardano. Saylor emphasized Bitcoin's unique status as the only crypto asset fully accepted by institutional investors, contrasting it with other cryptocurrencies which he believes will not gain such acceptance or be wrapped by a spot ETF. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

MiceAreTiny

They can ban and will ban, and can enforce a ban on unbacked securities, which is 99% of all crypto out there. They can not ban the code, but they can ban the ones that are running the servers and are essentially governing it, at least within the jurisdiction of the respective government. They absolutely can not enforce any ban they think they could implement over bitcoin. For starters, bitcoin is decentralized, it does not answer to the US government, they can not force it to shut down either. They could ban certain use cases for their citizens, but as "owning bitcoin" is the same as "knowing a number" I am looking forward to how they are going to try to ban that. They can force mainstream financial institution to not work with bitcoin, but after the SEC's ETF approval, that is increasingly unlikely.

someoneSomewhere2973

The largest Hong Kong Bitcoin ETF has an expense ratio of 1.99%. That is outrageous. Source: [https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0424/2024042401950.pdf](https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0424/2024042401950.pdf)

IDGAFOS

Are you alright? You do realize Bitcoin was below 20k prior to the ETF right?

customtoggle

The ETF was a bust, the halvening was a bust...what's the next narrative that will take us to $100k?! 😨😨😨

pennyPete

Kudos to your boomer mom, she is early-ish. The point is: before mainstream adoption = early Once that happens the value of BTC can only go up. US and (now Hong Kong) ETF purchasing is just the leading edge of this larger adoption. It will take months, maybe more than a year, but is definitely happening.

Financial_Design_801

Bitcoin ETFs are moving up the Commodity ETFs leaderboard (3rd place) Blackrocks Bitcoin ETF is ~$11 billion away from flipping their gold ETF (2nd pl), insane if it happens in a year (SPDR gold ETF 1st place @ 3.5x IBITs AUM) https://twitter.com/hodl15capital/status/1777078545304453486?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA

MyNi_Redux

Well, he took a software company that has nothing to do with bitcoin, and made it into a leveraged ETF. A charitable view is it's innovative. A less charitable one is that he is subverting the corporate mandate to do this risky experiment. The danger is he will kill the company if BTC falls by more than 50% over a consistent period of time.

Potatosalad112

I think it is undervalued, and post ETH ETF it should be sitting at around $0.25 a token. It will be a lot of use once Web3 gets more usage, so it isn't anything I'm going to part with for a while

429XY

Just to clarify — there are also “Trusts”, like the original, pre-ETF Grayscale BTC Investment Trust (Ticker: GBTC) as well as the more recently US-approved ETF (Exchange Traded Funds). The primary difference is an important one for BTC itself, as the ETF’s have to actually buy/hold the equivalent coins to represent the ownership people purchase of the ETF. So when you buy into an ETF you’re essentially paying for (or selling at) the spot BTC price, and ETF fees are very low. On the other hand, GBTC wasn’t tied directly to the price of BTC — so you could potentially (for example) buy it at a 30% premium over the spot BTC price and wind up selling at a 20% discount to it, which is obviously a massive loss for your investment…and that’s on top of relatively high 2-2.5% annual fees for management. And that’s the way it would go for normal investors — institutional investors would get an automatic discount rate buying in, at least in the earlier days of the Trust, making it much more likely to get out at a very favorable rate. GBTC was the only way to buy into BTC with Traditional or Roth IRAs for years, tho — and only if your brokerage allowed it. As such, I made the most of it and made several million (tax free in Roth), so it’s really a matter of knowing what you’re doing and understanding your best options.

bbien12

When it comes to BTC ETF (Exchange Traded Fund) imagine you are the fund manager. Let’s say BTC is worth $60k. You can buy one BTC and issue let’s say 60 shares of ZeevF ETF. In such distribution each share of your fund will be worth $1000. 60 shares x $1000 = $60k = one BTC you hold. Now every time BTC moves 1%, your ETF moves 1%. That’s it. Ofc there is way more to it (redemption rules, custody, management fees, etc) but we are not doing a deep dive here. Hope I helped!

Technical-Ad-8549

Exchange traded fund, it is designed to mimic the price of bitcoin. A spot ETF means they actually have possession of the underlying bitcoin. It is better for traders since the yearly fee to hold the asset is currently lower than a platform like Coinbase. For a long hold time, an exchange may be better. It is also available through traditional brokerage accounts as opposed to a separate app you would need for an exchange or wallet. Do not be confused by the price, it is split into smaller blocks to make it more attractive to retail investors, it is still correlated to relative price of bitcoin. Buy the etf if you don’t plan on holding for 3-5 years (depends on the fee, each one is different) Buy on a trusted exchange if you plan on selling after 3-5 years.

The_RealLT3

Bitcoin is POW, the ETF has nothing to do with decentralization...

Rickard403

Realistically speaking it wasn't going to last forever. Also, just like new crypto investors get scared when the market is dropping it only makes sense that investors in the ETF would too. Things will turn around in the short term and we'll be back to BTC scarcity issues.

Longjumping-Log1591

ETF'er

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Despite a strong start to the year, Bitcoin ETFs have recently experienced more outflows than inflows, with a record outflow recorded recently. The total assets managed in spot Bitcoin ETFs are about 827,982 BTC, accounting for approximately 4.22% of the total BTC supply. The Grayscale Bitcoin ETF has seen significant withdrawals, leading to a drop in its market share from over 90% to 35%. This trend raises concerns about the future appeal of the BTC ETF market. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

No-Doubt8378

Miner and DCA and longtime ETF holder here! I’ve bought gift cards here and there with BTC

LiveUndLetLive

Most of my sports oriented boards have an off-topic investment thread for stock/ETF tips. Definitely far upper middle class types and almost uniformly think Bitcoiners are morons that will lose it all. Mark their words, they "know" hahaha.

SouthJazz1010

I'm certainly not a expert, but yes things take months, in 2020 the halving happen in May and the bull market started in October. $45K might be possible until then. I'm looking closer to the 2020 chart now, I start to believe this was the dip, nothing happened over the summer 2020, things can be different now because of the ETF approval though, but I believe a upward trend from here actually.

dbreak_theworld

I put enough into RRSPs to not pay taxes. Within that I have 87% BTC ETF allocation to layer out of during this bull run. Everything else goes into BTC. Keep stacking for the next 15-25 years.

Financial_Design_801

Hong Kong fund Yong Rong is the biggest bitcoin ETF holder yet, per SEC filings today. They have $38m in Blackrock's IBIT. That's 10% of their US holdings, and double the next biggest holder. https://twitter.com/julian__fahrer/status/1786050882540535853?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA Update on Day 1 Hong Kong Bitcoin ETF Total Inflow: $+248 million ChinaAMC inflows $+124 million Harvest inflows $+63 million Bosera-Hashkey inflows $+61 million https://twitter.com/ericbalchunas/status/1786035915040674061?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA

Financial_Design_801

Hong Kong fund Yong Rong is the biggest bitcoin ETF holder yet, per SEC filings today. They have $38m in Blackrock's IBIT. That's 10% of their US holdings, and double the next biggest holder. https://twitter.com/julian__fahrer/status/1786050882540535853?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA Update on Day 1 Hong Kong Bitcoin ETF Total Inflow: $+248 million ChinaAMC inflows $+124 million Harvest inflows $+63 million Bosera-Hashkey inflows $+61 million https://twitter.com/ericbalchunas/status/1786035915040674061?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA

brianobush

Don't forget the annual fees for any ETF, it slowly erodes your BTC

Ha55aN1337

That people controling lots of funds will be able to put those funds into btc ETF.

moonRekt

Will be glorious when all these “ETF outflows” that wanted to lock in 20% profits looks out in 300% gain

LargeSnorlax

Do you think tradFi investors are going to be eating short term gains taxes for a 50% gain since etf introduction (January)? I would think tradFi / ETF folks are going to be set it and forget it people who allocate a percentage of their portfolio to it and aren't day traders

BizarroTheory

Yesterday's daily BTC ETF net outflow was the biggest yet (over 500 million USD). Probably why the market dumped yesterday.

AnbuRick

Your wife’s right. In accordance with the original vision, it became a scam when BlackRock launched an ETF for BTC with your money. Welcome back to centralized economy! Everyone is funding malicious institutions through the use of old mechanisms and deliberation, just like the old days! To the moon my dudes.

iamushu

Keep up the ETF hopium

JerseyJimmyAsheville

Btw, I do respect your comments and thought, do you believe that BTC will drop below $57,100, or the new Hong Kong ETF’s will push the price lower over the next week or 2 as it did in US markets when they went live? My thinking is that it would drop below $55K, working from the previous trends from the ETF launches. Thoughts?

AriesThef0x

Whoa, massive outflows of ETF yesterday, nearly 10k Coins sold