FIRE

MoarStu

Absolutely, real estate is a hard asset and is scarce, it’s obviously not divisible or fungible but it’s a necessity to live. Also owning a house creates wealth and the way we print money, housing will always go up plus we are 5-7 million single family houses short in the United States and builders have zero incentive to see that supply shortage diminishing bc of simply supply/demand economics. My goal is to pay off my mortgage and become debt free, so I can achieve FIRE.

RealCheyemos

*got rich from buying BTC back in 2013 guy checking in* 1.) it’s fucking awesome. 2.) I’ve been a career server since I was 16- feels *really* good to be able to FIRE/retire (did two weeks ago and I swear I’ve just been eat, naps, gym and watching NBA playoff basketball and seeing my girl at her lunch times everyday… it’s not getting old. 3.) I’ve bent pursuing my acting career since high school and my agent has been getting me a lot of auditions, so I’ve been loving that; haven’t gotten *a lot* of traction yet, but I’ve been making so much meaningful independent art/film that it doesn’t even matter. I know you guys will get there too; just keep stacking and keep HODLING: I just got in “early,” but we’re still so early that is actually mind boggling; todays prices of 65k per BTC *will seem like (relatively speaking) my 2013 purchases of $150 per BTC 20 years from now. Bet it. Love you guys, love this community. We’re all gonna make it- we’re on the BTC life raft and nothing can stop us. 🧡

d_m_916

The FIRE subreddit is all doom and gloom https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/s/QYt2PyKGuP

mattymoyanksfan

It is nice to be able to make up what ever you want on the internet isn’t it? I am not your mate and know what FIRE is. You are not in that category. Which your ignorance has proven. Unless you are a silver spoon baby…which you will likely piss away with your “sound” investment strategies I on the other hand will not laugh at you…but I won’t feel bad for you either

BarryTheBaptistAU

Hahaha......thinks I am actually asking him to remind me. Gold. Comedy Gold. FTR, I am FIRE at 55. House paid off, no debts, & and life is sweeet, mate and I got here because i didn't listen to rando crayon eaters online when it comes to investing.

TheSlipSlapDangler

You should cash out if you think you can purchase enough productive assets that cashflow that will remove or meaningfully reduce the necessity to sell your labor and time. I am FIRE retired. The only time I choose to work is if I want to buy BS toys and distractions. This is a bitcoin sub so I will get shit on here but if your goal is to not be reliant on selling your labor or time you have to cash out eventually, or pray that the modern monetary system collapses so your number can go up while you get to feel superior to others that are suffering? I retired at 39 and I don't do a fucking thing I don't want to. That is the whole point I think in investing in the first place, or sleep in your Toyota camry cause you sold everything for bitcoin. You do you.

AllCapNoBrake

FIRE. UP. THE. PRINTERS!!!! BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Bullish AF!

phaattiee

In the 70s (I think not too sure on the timeline), My grandparents were living on a yacht in the BVI when the offshore tax rush was booming and banks were offering cash interest on gold deposits because they desperately needed the reserve to cover the influx of cash... My grandparents were earning 18-25% on their gold for years... they sold everything they owned and ended up with around 400k in gold then just bummed it on a yacht... In his words "We couldn't spend the money quick enough"... Human beings will forever be jumping on bandwagons... you can be the person who jumps, be the person whose late, or be the bitter old guy taking their preconceptions to the grave... The more you jump on the wagons the more likely you are to catch an early one... I started my DCA in 2018, although hardly FIRE or a millionaire... It has been life changing, not just in terms of the money made (bought my first house with a sizeable deposit so looking at being mortgage free before I'm 45, 28 at time of buying house), which I wouldn't have been able to do but also in terms of how I view money and self custody of my entire life though the learning process of researching finance and economics... Profits from BTC --> fixed term investments during bear cycle --> interest put into gold with capital re invested to BTC prior to next halving.

Life-Duty-965

Unfortunately belief isn't a certainty. If you're rational you accept that humans are really bad at predicting the future. We frame it in today's knowledge. I'm happy to let my employer contribute to a pension and it's built up slowly. I've done nothing special, in my 40s now and it's a decent 6 figure sum. My boring old fund earned me 58k in the last 6 months according to my latest statement. It's not what bitcoin can do but it's good money and guarantees me a secure future. My bitcoin investment is on top. If the predictions of some.come.true then I have enough coins already to give me and my family long term generational wealth. No need to be greedy. I like to be in a position where I win either way. I have property, bitcoin, funds, a steady income, a cash emergency fund. It's a great position to be in. I have enough. Check out the FIRE community. It's all about slowly building up enough wealth to be financially independent so you can retire early. It doesn't matter what you believe because that alone doesn't make something becomes true. Please do diversify. If the predictions are correct, even a small exposure will provide you with future.wealth. Take care and good luck.

Timstertimster

the holy grail of freedom exists only if you own the land independently of a nation state with government, like it used to be back when people literally just showed up places and said "mine". of course that level of freedom implies that anyone can show up, bonk you on the noggin, and take all you thought you owned. most of us are content with the illusion of freedom, as long as we get to make some basic decisions ourselves. the idea that you actually want independence from fiat is completely delusional. as soon as any entity manages to control enough of any essential resource, you'll instantly have to accept their form of currency. but the reddit knuckleheads who're rabid maximalists aren't actually looking for financial independence, they're just speculating on volatility, hoping to off-ramp back to fiat the moment their profits are good enough for FIRE.

4xfun

Congratulation on achieving FIRE. :) a warm hug

johnnyb0083

0 or FIRE team checking in.

BarryTheBaptistAU

I am FIRE at 55 dude - I got a great life. Thanks for the advice though, mate.

The_Brojas

Congrats and fuck you! (Hopefully that comes across the same here as FIRE lol, it’s a good sentiment)

mazda7281

Because I cashed out from crypto before 2021 bull run and bought an apartment. If I hodl for 2-3 months more then I'd be a millionaire. Anyway I'm content with my savings and crypto sack. I'm 28 and very close to FIRE in a few years.

dmx442

Entered 2017, here is my thoughts: 1. First cycle you get wrecked 2. Optionally: second cycle you earn your shitcoin masters degree 3. Third cycle is the sweet spot. The second cycle is a bitch, you doubt yourself, you doubt the cycle theory, you are still un-expirienced and married to your shitcoins, you are still unable to sell in profits, you are especially unable to sell at loss, you still doubt that BTC is king, ***and you still think you are smarter than everyone.*** On this topic, you can't become filthy rich unless you put in already serious money. So you stop to gamble on shitcoins and DCA, and voila, now it needs time for your stack to grow. And since I hate people giving advice on topics they don't have experience and their own money in, If BTC reaches 100k, I am FIRE, so there is that.

nezroy

All the standard big ones I guess as starting points: r/investing, r/FIRE, r/Bogleheads, r/personalfinance, r/realestate

-Silky_Johnson

WE’RE HAVING A FIRE! sale.

Medical_Weekend_749

I dont have kids. Therefore, I will wait until 25% of my BTC is 2m EUR, sell it.. put it on a Dividend ETF.... FIRE. Remaining 25% I will sell when I reach 60, and the remaining 50% when I am 65... no need to HODL BTC forever... there is no need. Everybody should cash out as long as you can still travel. Put the money on a ETF.. and live by the dividends and gains.

mikiec1041

They're having a FIRE sale!?

heroinspazierer

the trick is to reach a point where selling a small fraction makes sense: if Bitcoin goes down, you certainly did the right thing. if it goes up, who cares about the few sats you spent? admittedly this point would only be reached for me, if the stack was in the FIRE region already.

NoState9589

FIRE

Kronos5111

This kinda reads like one of those reddit FIRE posts: “19 years old, no debt whatsoever, car paid off, modest 260k in ROTH and 198k in 401k. Inheriting my grandfathers $1.7M home. Should I sell or do you think I can afford the $5200 property tax payments? Income: $130k.”

LargeSnorlax

The problem (like all things with influencer culture) is that it's a bunch of sheep looking for a leader. Tiktok, smart phones and social media has fried everyone's braincells so the few ones they had in the first place are totally gone, so they have no idea how to research or use their brain any more, so they look for other people to tell them what to do, and what to think. This has created a bunch of vapid manchildren who get fake power from lording it over their Twitter followers, posting their rolexes and flexing their porches so other idiots follow their scams and lose all their money. A real person in crypto is not going to be flexing anything. They are not in the space to buy their mansions or drive around in a Lambo. A real person in crypto is not going to be trying to indoctrinate their coworkers, or telling people to buy SHIB so they can 1000x FIRE lifestyle. Any of those kinds of people are just cancer to the space.

TheCommodore777

Coast FIRE perhaps. That is my goal as well.

tapunan

I created a presentation to my wife, mainly a FIRE calculation Excel with DCA for crypto. Basically just to present that I will use a few month salary to stack, worst case scenario is we extend our retirement by a year if we lose it all.

na3than

The future utility of paper currency is fire. The future utility of Bitcoin is FIRE.

bustervich

**OH MY GOD THERE’S A FIRE** ^^sale

drewlb

Congratulations! In the r/FIRE movement, the amount you need to retire is typically considered to be between 25&30 x yearly income, with 30x being very conservative. That's an S&P based method, but if BTC continues it's trajectory and you keep buying, you could very well retire fully when BTC hits ~180k which hopefully is not that far away. Personally I'd want a bit more buffer given BTC volatility, but regardless, you're close to never having to work again and that's fantastic!

m4rM2oFnYTW

I'm doing something similar. I am forcing myself to sell 1-3% per year even if I don't "need" it. I consider it a living life tax, except my family and I get to be the tax collectors. This is a safe withdrawal rate for traditional FIRE plans but with Bitcoin, it is extremely conservative. I could easily get away with 8 to 10% per year although with the volatility in Bitcoin bear markets could really hurt your stack long term.

KlearCat

> Not really looking for advice as much as curious if others are in a similar boat to me and how you're managing it...It's totally a lucky and privileged position to be in, but I'm struggling to "do the right thing" as this thing keeps climbing....haha It's not easy. I'm in this awkward position of having life changing gains, but not retirement levels yet. And I've been here before in 2021 and seen it get taken away twice (on paper). It's this weird limbo phase where the ups and downs are staggering, but you still need 3-5x more gains to get to FIRE. I don't think people realize how hard it is to hold for so long. I'm almost 9 years in and it only gets harder.

UpDown

I first figured out my FIRE numbers (annual spend \* 25), I then decide what most % of crypto I'd want in my retirement nest egg (I decided 15%). Then based on that, I figured out the maximum amount of crypto I should ever have. Let's say the FIRE number was 2.4M ($96K annual spend), then $2,400,000 \* 0.15 = $360K. I found allowing up to this value gave you the ability to take outsized risk before retirement, but never an overly excessive amount. Just check your crypto each week during a bull market and sell $50K everytime you exceed this max by 50K. I did this and it felt great.

hstarbird11

This is more of a FIRE question. They've been a little bit more accepting of Bitcoin as of late, but some people will still dismiss it. If I were you, I wouldn't think about retiring with a mortgage, even if you hodl BTC. Unless you plan on doing some consulting work or something long term after retirement, pay off your mortgage 100%. The last thing you want is to lose your home in retirement because your investments don't work out as planned.

bleeepobloopo7766

Haha, nope not individually. But saving about 65% of salary with a large part going onto blockchains. This is just to keep DCAing and also felt that Whats the purpose of alot of these cheap dopamines and distractions in life when i get more pleasure from stacking. Probably wont ever FIRE, but if you dont try you never know. We cant all be earning 250k a year and doing ”just yolo’d 40k into X shit coin”. Hope your savings up and your accounts are green :)

Socksboxs28

This is FIRE

Vipu2

Same rule applies no matter what age because FIRE retirement is planned so you never run out of money.

Nicolaskao

Depends on cost of living, quality of life and how well you structure your cashflow with Bitcoin. Ideally you would never be selling all, you could do something similar to the FIRE strategy where you sell X% per year. Let's use the standard 4% and pretend you need 65k / year to retire. That would be $1 625 000 worth of BTC at 5 to 10 years, which could be anywhere from 4 to 1 BTC. An alternative could be to convert some BTC into ETF and utilize security based lending to convert just enough for a while, and using that to buy time between halvings, trying to optimize selling as little BTC as possible since it would appreciate enough to cover the loan. Or maybe even a mix of the two strategies, maybe there is a different way to design it that I'm not seeing as well.

the_westgate

New website is FIRE!!! Got my BAG and ready for lift off!!! By far the most dedicated and Loyal community for any memecoin!!

BarryTheBaptistAU

I am FIRE, mate (Unfamiliar acronym for 99% of degens). I haven't had to work since I turned 53 two years ago.

TheRealTheory001

Anyone reading through post this please be aware there are many people sharing their "suspicions" of the market being near the top. This is completely out of touch with anyone who has been studying the crypto cycles since 2009. There have been very predictable 4 yr cycles, accurate to within a few weeks, which forecast a cycle top of sometime around June - Nov 2025, 18 months away. The BTC ETF just opened the gates for the 98% of the investing world who did not have access to crypto in their investing or corporate accounts. It has steam rolled the ETF market and is just getting going. It takes time for the investment firms to get on board and recommend, and include in their funds. There is going to be a MASSIVE WAVE OF ADVERTISING AND SELLING of the ETF because they make a fortune in the fees (now or in the future). This is going to be in the news for the next year and a half, non-stop, i.e. tons of publicity. The FED is going to lower interest rates in a couple of months, several times this year, setting ALL markets on FIRE. It is being priced in now, which is why stocks didn't dump on the small inflation increase today. The previous cycles, once BTC broke it's previous all time high, it doubled in value within a few weeks. That being said, it's been on a huge run, early in the cycle, and it would not be surprising to see it pull back 20% or 30%, possibly creating an ascending triangle pattern eventually breaking out to the upside. Historically, we are in the approx first 25% to 30% of the bull market. This is generally a time to be finalizing, or adding to your long term hold positions if you have not done so sooner. Typically within a few months after the BTC halving (another supply shock incoming in April), you want to be 100% in on your investments, and only adding whatever capital you may earn during the bull run. It gets more risky the more you wait. I would personally regard any investment now as having a very slim possibility of pulling back up to 50%, but more likely less than 30%, and with the upside potential in the 4x to 6x easily for many (possibly most) projects, and 8x-12x if you are in lower market cap projects $100m - $1B. That's if you sell the top, which no one does. Using a DCA (dollar cost average) approach is always recommended. This is backed up by previous cycle patterns, but is not a prediction, it is a "hopeful expectation based on past performance." A black swan event could destroy all markets at any time. You should be prepared to lose everything you invest. That being said, if your investment performs, one of the most common feelings is "I wish I bought more, lower". The cryptocurrency market is a once in a generational opportunity to multiply wealth for the young and the risk taking. If you have time to recover any potential losses, it's not something to take for granted. And with the institutions getting involved, this may be one last opportunity to ride that wave, and we don't know what the future may bring once the market has grown beyond that point. I'm a novice trader and this is anecdotal information, not financial advice.

SuperNoise5209

Depends. If you were already at 65% of your FIRE target, that next 70% gain might really speed up your life plans. But no, it's not like going 20X in a single trade.

TheRealTheory001

Congrats but major major fumble. We're in the first 25% of the bull market right now. You're likely giving up 4x to 6x easy on many or most $1B-$40B+ coins right now. 10x on many many smaller projects. Normally BTC has DOULBED after breaking ATH, in a matter of weeks. QE coming in a couple of months is going to set ALL market on FIRE! What you have going for you (if USA) is you can still buy on a dip and hodl for a year and sell with long term cap gains. You nailed the bottom, now it's time to accrue those gains you earned. If you're completely satisfied, I would at least put 25% back in on a 20%+ pullback and double your cycle profits potentially, or more. Anecdotal info, I'm not an advisor at all.

ArugulaBoth8659

An observation from these responses..as I read various chat groups (FIRE for example) it’s interesting to see how people understand investing and monetary policy. I appreciate this question but more impressed with the knowledge base of the answers. Well done my BTC friends. Satoshi would be proud..

Carl_3K

I only buy crypto (any assets) until I reach FIRE.

Equal_Wheel109

Then FIRE

Silver-Rub-5059

Barista FIRE now or Lambo FIRE later 😂

jonhuang

Everyone's financial advice to each other: don't sell! buy more! Work terrible jobs so you can buy more! Make number go up!!! Forget that. If you've made it to FIRE, sell a large part and diversify. Going from a million to 100k is going to make you very sad; you should avoid that even at the cost of losing out on potential gains. If you have no wealth, try to gain wealth. If you have wealth, try not to lose it.

Warrlock608

Last bull cycle I spent my gains on garbage. This bull cycle I am fully committed to FIRE and plan on taking every penny I make and put it into a HYSA/Index funds and continue on with my life as though I hadn't made a penny. Current me might mumble and grumble, 65 year old me will be so proud though. !RemindMe 35 years

rksk88

Agreed Crypto is mixed with FIRE

Francis_Dollar_Hide

I’m FIRE at 47 and I still invest in BTC. Every rationally balanced portfolio should have exposure.

Lengurathmir

I bought at $7000 I’ll be alright lol. Longtime I only see moons, will go over 100k eventually, don’t be in a rush and buy low sell high or hodl until you got a house deposit or FIRE or whatever your dream goal is!

Good_Ad_5853

Saw your post in [FIRE] group, congrats dude

Revolutionary-Ebb-26

Go ask r/FI or people into FIRE about it. If you Google it, you'll find that 2-3m is given as a ballpark figure given in modern normies context as a figure to aim for when saving for a comfortable age 65 retirement. And some percentage of the popular do make $100k+ salary jobs.. factoring raises and compounded growth of savings in some appreciating assets, they could def reach $1-5 million after decades in the work force. $100k ain't what it used to be ... and neither is $1m. Also, there definitely are no coiner people or their parents worth 1-3 million. Think of the real estate market around major cities... There are boomers out there that bought a house for like $80k that's worth $1m today.

gowithflow192

Correct. It's basically a very low wealth tax of around 2% and only kicks in what is over around 60k. It sucks for people trying to FIRE in safe trad investments but crypto bros and other risk takers don't really care because the gains dwarf this tax.

dmx442

Subjective. I would say, In following order: * Pay off all debt * House money * Financial freedom * Financial Independence, retire early (FIRE)

Optimal_Photo_6793

I feel the FOMO boiling in me at the moment. Even a seasoned player is susceptible. Fetch has been on FIRE! congrats on that one. Should continue to be a solid gainer. Thanks for pointing me back to FIL, plenty of room to run to get back to previous ATH. Komodo could be one to look out for too. Plenty happening on Blast at the moment, lot of rugs but a lot of people making money too

HSuke

Yes. High risk, low mcap tokens are highly volatile and provide larger gambling opportunities, gains, and losses. You do whatever is your own risk appetite. I'm close to FIRE, so I'm only 5% in crypto, and it's mostly all for gas and utility tokens I use. Different point in life.

PopFirm5291

Well, his financial advisor is so dumb, they know jack shit about bitcoin when you ask them. FCKING USELESS Piece of shit. FIRE THEM!!!!

PopFirm5291

Next week is going to be fkcing LITE FIRE UP!!!!

Joker9515

Very good. This coin is the chosen one, and we will take it to the stars. FIRE, here I come.

coupl4nd

Of course not... I tell people all the time in FIRE and finance subs and they never learn.

na3than

In a decade or two, use Bitcoin for FIRE. In a decade or two, use bank notes for fire.

Next-Jicama5611

What’s your FIRE number? Congrats buddy.

penty

Awesome, I'm at LeanFIRE moving into just FIRE range and depending on this run may hit FatFIRE. WAGMI

spitefully_empty

Meh maybe our definition of ‘decent’ is different, or our end game is different. My end game isn’t ‘FIRE’. I don’t want to miss out on experiences and entertainment by being frugal. I want to maintain my rich lifestyle while accumulating more assets with my disposable income. I ned at least 6 figures in secondary income to seriously plan retirement. Right now i only make 10-20k per month. I’m assuming this will take another 5-10 years.

ZookeepergameRude279

According to the FIRE movement you need 25x of your yearly expenses invested in an index fund to retire. According to that a million USD should be enough in many decent countries.

Minute_Disk9857

maybe you have other investments that will make you FINE/FIRE. Or maybe you are lucky and that you enjoy your job?

Sacify

in that case: Stack Sats -> Wait -> Stack -> Wait until "FIRE" -> move your ass out of that dictatorship -> enjoy life

MoarStu

Sell when I can payoff my mortgage and have real FIRE

Warrlock608

I subscribe to the FIRE methodology and live on minimalist everything. A very large portion of my income just goes straight into bitcoin which goes straight into my cold storage wallet. I have some alt coins and stock options going, but that is a tiny allocation and more for fun. Bitcoin is going to be what digs me out of being wage slave.

Downtown-Tear124

Fiat currency is not where you store wealth though. It's a false comparison I'd maybe check out the FIRE subs for advice other than pile of cash under your mattress 

EggIll7227

Smart people on normies subs are catching up, and more and more FIRE people allocates small stash to crypto. Buttcoiners will still hate it even after it becomes a boring investment like gold.

Warrlock608

This looks a lot like someone attempting FIRE, although probably not the eating out part. Making me feel guilty having just bought a $200 desk.

poughkeepsee

I’d consider selling a portion of my holdings if BTC hits a million per coin. I’d invest in a safe ETF (SP500). That would technically allow me to hit FIRE and retire. So essentially that would be a rebalance of my portfolio. I’d still continue investing weekly as I’ve been doing for years though.

BTC_Werewolf

Thanks? Guess you've never been in the FIRE, FatFIRE OR Chubby FIRE reddits? That's all people do there.

asdafari12

> haha, if I were to FIRE abroad, it would be a country with good weather all year round. Yea, I am thinking of Italy as well, despite the high CGT. Food, weather and the people are great. Pretty cheap real estate, comparatively. Ideal would be Switzerland 51% and Italy the rest but I don't think I will have quite enough. > I'm also not sure where the >25% tax comes from? I meant more than 25% of my assets are in crypto. I read some article where they can count it as a professional activity given certain criteria. Several countries have these for crypto. I solo stake myself and have like 1000+ TXs so it is not impossible they would see it that way.

HedgeHog2k

haha, if I were to FIRE abroad, it would be a country with good weather all year round. I'm also not sure where the >25% tax comes from? I also don't consider Belgium "Beautiful", especially the flanders part where I live in, is quite crowded. but I'm not unhappy in Belgium.

asdafari12

Nice, I have a Google sheet with some pros/cons of FIRE countries, where I want to live when I "make it". Countries with no/low CGT score high since I have a lot invested. Belgium is up there. Feel free to add anything. Pros * No CGT on stocks, will likely introduce in a couple years. Unclear tax rules on crypto CGT, depends on a number of factors if ordinary income or CGT. Most likely high tax for me due to >25% assets in crypto. Can reduce after FIREd * Beautiful, high standard of living * Real estate cheap prices (avg. is half of Sweden's) Cons * Bad weather

MachaMacMorrigan

Yes. If each 4 year epoch starts at a halvening, then the next minimum occurs roughly 30 months later (assuming historical patterns continue). Looking for a 20% LTV on (say) 25% of your stack does not seem excessively risky to me. That's 5%, which is close to the 4% drawdrown rate all the FIRE enthusiasts shoot for. Assuming you own your own house and $1M = 1 BTC, then that gives you $50K per year and a *very* comfortable standard of living. Not wealthy, no weeping . . . seems fine to me.

pommesUNDwurst

>sproportionate Price increase (not necessarily in USD but in % in regards to the global buying power). But over time this exponential growth will have reached it's peak and the average re Definitely not "hodl forever". Sooner or later Bitcoin will be obsolete. It is only a question of when and why. Might be tomorrow. Might be 100 years from now. Everyone who thinks this is not the case, has simply no imagination. Especially if you have reached your financial long term goals (House / FIRE / Island... whatever) you owe it to yourself to diversify your portfolio. There are many other Assets that can protect you against inflation. But nonetheless. For the time being I don't see anything that might convince me to stop stacking Sats. And I personally don't believe this will change in the coming years.

zack907

Yeah a lot of the original FIRE community were computer programmers which has a high overlap with a lot of the original crypto investors. Both groups are willing to go against social norms to follow logical thinking.

zack907

The FIRE community isn’t a monolith. There are plenty of FIRE influencers that aren’t outright against crypto and even some that are crypto investors. That said IMO BTC and maybe ETH are the only ones compatible with the general philosophy.

austinvvs

Someone should link this to that subreddit, and then compare the gains of Bitcoin to the S&P since 2017. Instant aneurysm. As a side note, I like the concept of FIRE but I left that subreddit because of the incessant toxicity.

SuknIsh2

I've known a lot of people in FIRE that love crypto. There's just as many crypto haters in this group as in fire groups.

21millones

Well done. It looks like at this point you will achieve FIRE when BTC reaches 223k in fiat terms. That could happen this cycle!! I am following a similar strategy for FIRE. I think btc is awesome for it, it is a pity that the FIRE community don't understand it and rejects any conversation about it. Have you thought about the strategy to live off it when you retire? With the Bitcoin cycles as they are, I think that, instead of selling a 4% every year for your "salary", it would be better to think in 4 year terms, and wait for the high stage of the cycle to sell enough btc to live for 4 years (then wait for 4 more years until the next cycle). Any opinions on this?

HydraGene

Of course. €1M is not enough, but you shouldn't cash out all at once when doing FIRE. You're supposed to stay in the market and in simple terms reverse DCA, in other words every month you only take out what you need, nothing more. The remaining BTC will keep growing in value, so a value of €1M now should be sufficient.

Theeeeeetrurthurts

Eh I’m tried and true FIRE (70% there) and have about 5% in crypto. Risk tolerance isn’t as high as OP but happy with my gains on both fronts.

kevinkuemper

been doing the same since 2021. been buying every 2 weeks. hoping to FIRE as well on bitcoin

Wonzky

Ah to be able to buy at 2017 priced again would be a dream. It's funny you mention you got the idea from FIRE as they absolutely hate crypto, but congrats to you on succeeding!

StatisticalMan

> I am sensing these scenarios you are presenting are more typical with historical retirement plans - my investment thesis/questioning here assumes I will be withdrawing the balance before I reach 59.5, otherwise sure just keep that account chugging along and tax deferred - its what my parents did with great success I just don't see a world where this will be the case for my generation, although I agree that I am projecting assumptions of the future and ignoring any possible solutions to our world economic system Not at all. I am part of FIRE community. I would never argue to have 100% of wealth in Roth IRA that would be terrible but you will need some portion of your wealth beyond 59.5 unless you retirement plan involves a handgun and good ammo that you will use at age 59.5.

SnooMacarons3074

I don't plan on selling for a long time... I have work, can sustain myself, and other projects working on my goals for FIRE. In terms of price in my lifetime? Another 40 years from now I could totally see it in the hundreds of millions. I think we will hit a fever pitch when the on-exchange volume hits 0 as people are withdrawing more and more. When that happens, only a few people will be setting the price.

Unique-Sea2028

If he is able to make it work with 10k a year where he lives, then that's fine, right. Drilling down a bit, and using some numbers from the FIRE community, he would need 250k invested in index funds to have a withdrawal rate of 4% (statistically going to be over 95% chance you won't ge broke). Difficulty will still be: going from btc to fiat and then chugging it into an index funds. It's a totally different approach then crypto, so he should be looking into that first. For instance: I'd never feel comfortable spending my BTC although I'd like to retire early as well.

penty

Separate from Bitcoin took a 2 year Sabbatical mid 2014 due to life changes...thanks to Bitcoin extended that to now Lean-ish FIRE. This halvening will move me to Fat FIRE. (And still kick myself for not mining before or skipping a few weeks of lunches to buy in 2011-2012.) Good on you, been thinking Portugal or Bali myself. Why Greece?

FormZealousideal9252

How dependent are you on the BTC to reach your FIRE goal? Will you still get there without it

KlearCat

I've been in cold storage for 8+ years, so not quite at the 10 year mark. > Are you going to stay in paper forever? What are you waiting for and what would make you feel safe enough to move it off paper. Technically even a hardware wallet is essentially paper storage (or whatever medium you use to write down your recovery seed). But to answer your question, I moved mine off the traditional paper storage which for me was 1 password protected wallet (public/private key) many years ago when it was clear that it was inferior to using a hardware wallet. And yes, I used a website to create the wallet. It was considered safe at the time to download the website and run it offline. > Are you ever going to realize your gains and upload to an exchange? Yes, when I hit my price target I'm planning on selling <50% of my stash. My price target is when I can comfortably FIRE on that amount. My goal is to stop working completely. Hopefully within the next 2 years.

HSuke

60/40 rule was never generally accepted. 3-4% rule are still fine. FIRE tries to look at decades-long timelines, not 2-4 year timelines.

HSuke

Probably closer to 3-4 years ago is when the change happened. And that was due to CeFi lending apps. Of course, nearly all of them went bankrupt and FIRE community stopped talking about them for the past 2 years.

HSuke

r/FIRE is the less-moderated version of r/financialindepedence

HSuke

FIRE sub hates Dave Ramsey too. He's more for getting out of debt, and half of it is not good advice.

Crappyhodler

In traditional FIRE you also need to be constantly selling to pay living expenses. You have shares and bonds that go up in value over time, hopefully more than what you have to sell. I don't see a difference with bitcoin. Your BTC number may be slowly decreasing, but that's not a problem if your total monetary value is growing.