BTC

EnvironmentalJump416

At that point I imagine that the dollar would restructure to a different currency. Possibly backed by something. 'Oh, your currency uses the gold standard? Thats so 1970s. In 2070 we have the dollar pegged to bitcoin. USD uses the BTC standard!'

Awkward_Potential_

It has to be China. They've been loading up on gold. No reason they wouldn't want to do the same thing with BTC.

Longjumping_Method51

That's true. Just frustrating with today's financial atmosphere but thank goodness for BTC!

bitsteiner

With 1BTC = $1B the Dollar would be devalued significantly and sending smaller amounts than $10 would be nonsense.

BTCMAXE

I don’t think you’re thinking is flawed—you’re working through your understanding quite well, actually… You’re on your way to a place most people don’t get to all that easily—which is thinking of BTC as the dominant currency, but without attaching another currency to it. Even experienced Bitcoiners are addicted to the fiat drug and attach it to Bitcoin all the time. I’d like to see the world priced in Bitcoin, not just dollars, pounds, euros, etc… On a side note, I see Bitcoin as the dominant currency someday, but there will still be many others, too.

moon-lambo

Yeah I think that’s how it could work, and I don’t know much about Lightning either, but I think a channel between parties would record the microTx and when a threshold ( >= 1 sat?) is reached maybe the channel is closed and the result written to BTC blockchain.

BTCMAXE

Think of it like this though: If Bitcoin truly is the best money, then it’ll become the most desired money. And so what happens then? Those who want it will make it MORE desirable for you to part with it. To me, there are only 2 ways to accomplish that: You have to be given more “stuff” for your Bitcoin, or the counterparty must be willing to accept less Bitcoin for the transaction, or a combination of both. Basically, the more desired Bitcoin becomes, the more its “value” increases, regardless of the fact that 1 BTC = 1 BTC.

LifeIsAnAdventure4

Bitcoin transaction fees are expressed in sat, so the value of a dollar does not matter to them. Indeed, BTC to a billion dollars would speak more of the debasing of the dollar than BTC’s value but it’s not like the Fed don’t make billions of those every single day.

CointestMod

#Bitcoin Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by a deleted user which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > ####**Intro** > > Overall, Bitcoin's conservative blockchain has failed to keep up technologically with other blockchains. Bitcoin is currently #1 not due to better design, but because it had a first-mover advantage. But how long will that hold? > > Bitcoin is a gateway cryptocurrency. Many crypto enthusiasts often started out with Bitcoin and then branched out. Once you've had a taste of newer, faster networks that offer delectable DeFi dApps and smart contracts, it's hard to go back to slow, boring old Bitcoin. > > ####**Bitcoin doesn't excel at anything** > > **Poor Medium of Exchange** > > Bitcoin is much too slow. It has a max throughput of **3-4 TPS** that takes **30-60 minutes for probabilistic finality**. It used to have a max throughput of 7 TPS, but that has gradually fallen over the years after exchanges started using batch transactions. It's much too slow to be used for point-of-sales merchant transactions. No one is ever going to want to **wait 30-60+ minutes** at a cash register for a transaction to go through. Block times average 10 minutes, but they are very variable. 14% of blocks take longer than 20 minutes, and 5% are longer than 30 minutes [[Source](https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/25293/probablity-distribution-of-mining/43592#43592)], causing stress for those waiting for confirmation. And if there's congestion, some transactions can get stuck in the mempool for hours or days. > > It's orders of magnitude slower than newer networks like Polygon PoS or Algorand, which can [process 4000+ TPS with sub-4s of deterministic finality](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/get-started/basics/why_algorand/), with transaction fees well under a penny. > > Even TradFi now has payment systems like Africa's M-Pesa, UK's Faster Payments, Australia's NPP, the US's upcoming FedNow, and Clearinghouse's RTP, which provide **near-instant** payments and peer-to-peer transactions **without fees**. > > **Unstable Store of Value** > > Bitcoin is too volatile to be considered a stable Store of Value. It lost up to 80% of its purchasing-power during previous bear markets. It's also NOT a good stock market hedge since it often moves with the stock market. > > **Lacks smart contracts and DeFi** > > Bitcoin doesn't support DeFi smart contracts with its very basic Bitcoin Script. There are smart contract protocols that use Bitcoin like Stacks, but they are very disconnected from Bitcoin. > > ####**Difficult to achieve widespread global adoption** > > At 4 TPS, Bitcoin can only make ~345K transactions/day. There are ~8B people in the world today. If Bitcoin grows to the size of 1% of the population, each person can make an average of 1 on-chain transaction every 230 days. **If Bitcoin usage grows to 10% of the population, each person can make an average of 1 on-chain transaction every 6.3 years.** To achieve 10% world adoption, everyone would need to solely be using centralized exchanges and not interacting directly with the blockchain itself. > > ####**Issues with the Lightning Network** > > **Not even the Lightning Network could save Bitcoin** because opening and closing a channel requires 2 on-chain transactions. Whenever the directional capacity of a channel is exceeded, it will need to be rebalanced, or be closed and re-opened. You can't expect people to store months of funds on a single channel. Half of the US is living paycheck to paycheck and would unlikely be able to keep channels open for long periods. If even 1% of the world used the Lightning Network and opens/closes their channels twice a year, the Bitcoin Network would become completely congested. > > **Not a true Layer 2** > > Similar to Plasma channels, **the Lightning network is not considered a true Layer 2 because it lacks global state.** There are many nodes that are not connected to the rest of the network, and onion routing issues can cause nodes to be disconnected from the rest of the network. **Channels only work if everyone's online.** If you're offline, others can force-close your channel, leading to a 1-week wait time where the channel's funds are locked and inaccessible. > > **Meant for small transactions** > > Lightning is optimal for small transactions. The larger your transaction, the higher the fees you have to pay to route it through the network. As of March 2023, the [average channel capacity](https://1ml.com/statistics) is only 0.07 BTC, and the average node capacity is only 0.33 BTC. It's not uncommon for a large 1-BTC transaction to cost $2-10 in fees to route through multiple nodes in the Lightning Network due to limited channel capacity, which can make it more expensive than L1 Bitcoin fees. Also, the total value stored on public Lightning channels account for under [0.02% of Bitcoin's total locked value](https://1ml.com/). > > **Partially-centralized, low-security layer** > > Most people just connect to centralized nodes in a spoke-hub network topology to gain access to high-capacity nodes. Even though [average capacity is getting bigger](https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity), the [number of public channels has been on the decline since 2021](https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-channels), meaning that Lightning is becoming more centralized. > > **Channels require rebalancing** > > One of the biggest problems with opening channels is that they **start out with zero incoming liquidity**. Anyone who opens a channel starts out with a metaphorical "full cup of water". They can't receive any more water until they first empty the cup a little. And they can only receive additional water equivalent to the amount they removed. Similarly, people who open new channels to the Lightning network need to find a way to spend their Sats safely so that they can have incoming liquidity. Merchants and Lightning node providers often have a lack of incoming-liquidity while consumers who only spend usually run out of outbound liquidity. > > There are ways to rebalance your channel capacity, but it usually costs money to pay for a service to provide that liquidity, and it can be as expensive as a $1 fee per $1000 of liquidity. > > ####**The disadvantage of soft forks** > > The major downside of Soft forks is that they require new versions of the software to maintain backwards-compatibility with older versions, which leads to **technical debt**. This significantly slows down the adoption of new updates, which now often take 3-6 years to gain the majority. > > Due to its soft forks, the Bitcoin network has to maintain a mismatch of all sorts of different address formats: P2PK, P2PKH, P2SH, P2MS, P2WPKH, Nested P2WPKH, P2PKH, P2WSH, and P2TR. At the start of January 2023, [only 1% of transactions were using Taproot-compatible addresses](https://transactionfee.info/charts/inputs-types-by-count/) while 65% were still using inefficient legacy addresses from before 2017. > > **Almost no one is using addresses newer than the 2021 update because none of the major CEXs support them**. Most exchanges (Binance, Coinbase, Kraken) [don't support Bech32m addresses](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bech32_adoption#Exchanges), which means they still can't send to Segwit v1 and Taproot addresses, despite that it was [an update from 2021](https://bitcoin.org/en/releases/0.21.1/). > > In comparison, networks that hard fork for protocol updates don't have these incompatibility issues between versions. Everyone is working on the same version, which allows for consistency. > > ####**Extremely inefficient and wasteful** > > To protect against Sybil and 51% attacks, Bitcoin's PoW consensus achieves greater security through greater **redundancy**. Out of a million miners, only one of them is producing the actual block while the rest of them are just wasting energy and electric waste. Full nodes also hold redundant copies of the blockchain ledger, leading to wasted storage. > > In 2022, each block cost roughly $150-250K in energy to mine, which is equivalent to $80-120 of fees per transaction. The total Bitcoin network energy consumption of ~150 TWh/yr is equivalent to [**18-24 US nuclear power plants**](https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/5-fast-facts-about-nuclear-energy). Another way of looking at this is that Bitcoin consumes about as much energy as all data centers globally [[Source](https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-may-consume-as-much-energy-as-all-data-centers-globally)]. > > In comparison, other distributed consensus methods such as BFT are [10^7 x more efficient for energy use](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12599-020-00656-x). There is a silver lining: the energy waste (and security) will slowly decrease with each block subsidy halving, at the cost of decreased security. > > ####**Mining Pool Centralization** > > **The top 3 mining pools own 66% of the network hash rate** [[Source](https://btc.com/stats/pool)]. Individual miners have no financial incentive to run full nodes, so it's rare for them to be auditing their pool operators and won't notice attacks until it's too late. > > This could be fixed with **Stratum v2**, but that's not available yet. And we don't even know if mining pools will enable the configuration th... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/100p7u8/top_coins_bitcoin_conarguments_january_2023/) to be taken to the original topic-thread for this argument or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1cl5d82/daily_crypto_discussion_may_6_2024_gmt0/).

CointestMod

* Relevant Cointest topics: [Bitcoin Cash](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_bitcoin_cash), [Litecoin](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_litecoin), [Lightning Network](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_lightning_network), [Proof of Work](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_proof-of-work), [Taproot](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_taproot) * Official and related subreddits: r/Bitcoin, r/BitcoinMarkets, r/BitcoinMining, r/BTC, r/BitcoinCash. * Sort comments as controversial first by [clicking here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ckws5h/bitcoin_millionaires_now_opt_for_real_estate_over/?sort=controversial). Doesn't work on mobile.

soks86

Quite possibly it's a race condition in their code where sometimes the template is accessed before the reward part of it is propagated to the part of the circuit that's reading the template for the reward. Can't be sure, but this is usually the most complicated part of code and what is usually done incorrectly but appears to work most of the time anyways (what's the chance you get the reward before it propagates through memory? or perhaps what's the chance it won't propagate through memory in reasonable time). Even crazier, JIT systems like Java translate your code to machine code while it is executing. This is a step which, in almost all older systems, happens before you execute any code at all. Since JIT creates the code to execute during execution itself some bugs only appear after the software has been run in a particular manner for a particular length of time, then suddenly, it breaks. This wouldn't apply to BTC Core based code, since it's C++, but I dunno what miners use nowadays or anydays. Good fun!

Artorias_the_hollow

Bitcoin’s price action just doesn’t look strong enough for this to be a sustained rally (imo). Money is flowing from BTC to Alts, but there doesn’t seem to be much new capital coming in. If BTC drops again, alts will follow. I could be completely wrong, but if I am I still have a couple $k profit from the sale.

AntiWokeCrap

What do you mean? It's worth celebrating!!! We are all still early in the adoption of this new digital asset. A pacific revolutionary change that will leave in the past capitalist and communist regimes to implement a free-market version without the threat of interventions from rulers anywhere in the world. From now on we'll trust the code, not any government. No amount of force will be able to fund wars without the citizens contributing willingly. For first time in mankind an asset cannot be seized, stolen or taken away by force. Consumerism will be punished, instead of encouraged. Those who save will be able to reach their 80's with their savings providing them the comfort they deserve for the work delivered during their lifetime, instead of being taken away day after day, year after year until is worthless and has lost all its purchase power. These are a few reasons to celebrate and share obtaining BTC and it's just the beginning...

nassauboy9

BTC is a store over value. Its lack of feature set is what adds to its security. It is the most secure and scarce method of storing value today. Stop focusing on scalability and speed and features. It was never ment to do that. Layer 2 will serve that purpose. i suggest a book THE 7th property which will give thorough understanding of btc. I have been in btc since 2009 and still learned something from the book.

sashimi-time

I don’t think BTC will reach 150-200K personally. Last cycle everyone was calling for 100K and it only got to ~65K. As for the timeline, no one really knows. Some say because BTC achieved a new ATH before halving then the timeline is accelerated. Again, everyone is just guessing. I suggest studying charts. BTC respects 20 MA on the weekly, every time it goes below the line it dumps. The start of the past bear market also saw BTC falling below the 20 MA.

UpbeatFix7299

Lol no one actually uses any crypto (including BTC) for its intended purpose. Just gambling on the price, money laundering, wash trading, scamming.

RebelliousRoomba

I have a computer science theory that I’m trying to test out now regarding this. It seems possible that a future coin could be built from the beginning to be decentralized, proof of work with a fair launch, private, and scalable. The largest barrier that I see currently are the small, linear block sizes, along with the fact that much of the proof of work energy consumption goes to orphan blocks that are not assimilated into the chain (not a main problem, but definitely an issue that makes BTC mining inefficient). I’m certainly not saying that altcoins are doing things better, I don’t currently have any evidence that they are, just that they theoretically COULD be done better if someone built the right structure and did so fairly without pre-mining and handing off a bunch of the stock directly to insiders.

DanielWalker12

Celebrating the BTC halving

SmoothGoing

There are no "buys" here. But transactions on blockchain are visible to everyone. The address has received BTC. Nothing says they were purchases. Bitcoin reassigment address to address doesn't need to be tied to a purchase necessarily.

SmoothGoing

There are no "buys" here. But transactions on blockchain are visible to everyone. The address has received BTC. Nothing says they were purchases. Bitcoin reassigment address to address doesn't need to be tied to a purchase necessarily.

RebelliousRoomba

I agree, I just know that when I honestly assess myself I am very fast to immediately look for any flaw in any other cryptocurrency that I come across. My hope is that if an alternative was presented that is in fact better than BTC that I would realize it, although I feel like I am likely to dismiss it much in the same way I used to dismiss Bitcoin in the early years.

GiftAccomplished5900

yep, basically you could do solo-mining and if you are lucky enough you could get the 3.125BTC (block reward)

JustinCompton79

Plenty of room for alts in my wallet, but I do love the O.G. BTC too.

brotherRozo

There is a delay, a span of time between when someone first hears about bitcoin, and when they have a base understanding. For some this is months, or years or decades It took me from learning about BTC in 2010, to 2020, 10 years to start paying attention, dive in and learn as much as I can. I still don’t know everything, but I wholeheartedly know Bitcoin isn’t going anywhere. We all will have plenty of time to learn, centuries even.

tDANGERb

What’s his 80 year old father going to do with BTC?

ThePhantomTrollbooth

There’s various ways to borrow against your holdings. As long as you’re very conservative with the borrowing and BTC goes up, it’s a pretty solid way to make use of the asset. Once the bull run starts to crest, they can easily sell an even smaller fraction and pay off that debt.

smathews24

Look into Casa Gold. They have a premium membership program - essentially white glove self custody service and recently launched an inheritance platform with the membership. They will walk your family through the entire process to take custody of your BTC. I could not recommend it enough

Plus_Touch_8746

I think that is why, in the future, all BTC will end up ETFs. And all the “not your key, not your coin” nonsense will end. Just my two satoshis.

Broqueboarder

I expect a boost to LTC this year but not sure how much. LTC is a great coin. But it is lacking in defi. LTC is going to be affected by Rosen Bridge this year. The bridge is currently live between Ergo and Cardano. Its a decentralized bridge that has watchers and guards. Watchers and guards get revenue of the bridge transaction fees. Anybody can be a watcher. I run the watcher software on a laptop. Rosen Bridge team is currently working on adding bridges to BTC and Eth. Since LTC is a fork of BTC, once bridge to BTC is live it wont take much work to adapt Rosen to LTC. Once bridge to LTC is live you’ll be able to bridge LTC over to the Cardano, Ergo and Eth chains, invest rsLTC into whichever defi apps have the best returns.

LumpyAbrocoma175

You probably have a small stack, that's why. Once you pass, multiple millions people change, even family. Especially that BTC isn't as easy to trace as most wealth, so you better teach your wife how to use multisig wallet.

Its_Ben_Squeezy

Nothing will ever be wrong with it. If you put it on a top tier exchange like coinbase, your BTC is safe. Even if there's a hack they are insured and you'll get your BTC back.

tDANGERb

Create a Will that liquidates the BTC into fiat and distributes at death. Find an executor of that Will that would understand how to do that

EgonHorsePuncher

If no one talks about buying bitcoin then the perspective is it's not being bought. And perspective is a powerful influencer in market mindsets. Specifics is odd, and more of a flex. But milestones for people matter. that .1 or 1 BTC is a big accomplishment for folks. Celebrating with like minded people is better than strangers not in the know.

Aggressive_Bench_555

It's crazy and risky, if you plan on investing for the long term I'm sure the price of BTC will reach the $80k you're talking about

FrequencyRealms

My post got bizarrely Censored by the AI Moderator Bot so i'm posting it here. # SEC / BTC / Gemini “‘Gary Gensler has become their attack dog. He is Elizabeth Warren’s pit bull.” - Cameron Winklevoss

TheWillOfFiree

Buying BTC biweekly in the bear market will set you up the best in crypto. Then just sit back and wait for your average people to be aping in and sell.

catchBTC

Is BTC targetting for $50k? Lookin at recent upmove in BTC from $56k to $64, i guess it is just a retracement. Now it is very likely BTC will touch $50k mark very soon and that will be last leg of its down trend before moving large upmove upto $100k One can easily find shorting opportunity at this price and make a handsome amount of money. **Users dicretion advised, this is not a trading tip. Do let me know in comments.. Who want to dive with BTC?

catchBTC

Lookin at recent upmove in BTC from $56k to $64, i guess it is just a retracement. Now it is very likely BTC will touch $50k mark very soon and that will be last leg of its down trend before moving large upmove upto $100k One can easily find shorting opportunity at this price and make a handsome amount of money. **Users dicretion advised, this is not a trading tip. Do let me know in comments.. Who want to dive with BTC?

SmoothGoing

You likely never was a public key. Address is not any kind of key. Zpub is an extended public key for segwit addresses but there's rarely a reason to share it with anyone. Giving someone a new address doesn't reveal much. But all future history is visible. So a proper wallet will spend the entire amount with the rest going to change. Once BTC leaves it might have went to someone to buy their lawnmower or it might be something you sent to yourself and nobody knows. Do not share public keys. You share a new unused address to someone who needs to pay you. No one can see wallets.. Only addresses and transactions between them are recorded on the blockchain.

millionmilegoals

You need to clarify some things after reading your replies. 1. It seems you’re not in the US. 2. Did you open an account online through an intermediary or directly with Coinbase? 3. How did you have a contract with them to buy BTC?

zorg621

Posted this on another comment below. But Ben from BTC Sessions has put together a company teaching people this exact thing. www.bitcoinmentor.io I'm one of the mentors on the site, check it out if curious. If not no worries 🤙

zorg621

Sounds like you would probably want to do a collaborative multisig with Nunchuck and have an easy way for your dad to restore the funds. Ben from BTC Sessions has launched a website with this exact type of service. If you go to Bitcoinmentor.io you can see all the available mentors available and different pricing plans.

NeeeD210

Think about it this way. If you could find the keys to a wallet, then Satoshi's wallet would be empty (it has over 1 million BTC). You can also see it this way. Wallets use a 256bit encryption, you should look up how long it takes to decrypt such a wallet.

BossToneDude

It’s about metcalf’s law used to determine the value of the interconnection system, not what the system will be used for. If 5 computers are networked together and able to share data, they may exchange data quickly. But how valuable can the data exchanges be with just 5 computers? Put 50,000,000 computers on a network and there’s a lot more value. The network may not be as fast everywhere, but it’s more useful. In the early days of BTC let’s say at one point there were 5,000 users. It a fair number of folks. They can mine, store the value represented by their BTC, and trade with other BTC holders for goods and services. Not much utility compared to today though. Relatively low value transactions. People have now bought houses with BTC. How will people be able to use BTC in 25 yrs when there are well over 1,000,000,000 using it? Paying for fuel (gas / electricity at a public station) seems obvious. The analogy is kinda of similar to using a credit card or ApplePay at a vending machine today vs only being able to use coins 35 yrs ago. Imagine trying to buy gas or electricity at a charging station when there were 5,000 users total. Impossible. Many folks were still using desktops /laptops for anything related to BTC. Hope this helps explains network effects and adoption implications. NFA. GLTA!

CompetitiveAct7214

Okay so technically he can use common seed phrase words and create a bot that just puts it together. I’ve randomly put seed phrases in and gotten into many wallets by pure guessing, they were all empty I should add. But there no way your friends boy can make a program that can find “lost” Bitcoin wallets. That doesn’t make any sense, how is it even lost… Is he like locating old hard drives that have BTC on them or something xD It doesn’t exist… And if it did, you know damn well it would be worth more like 300K +

BTCMAXE

This is why I prefer a big exchange like Coinbase. People shit 💩 on it, but look at all the smaller exchanges that have rugged people over the years and have gone under. Unlike Cash App, for example, when you buy BTC on Coinbase, you’re NOT actually buying BTC; you’re buying a “claim” on BTC to be redeemed later upon withdrawal to a cold wallet. That’s the way to go. I know some people withdrawal after buying .01 or .1 BTC, but I prefer much bigger. I want very few, huge UTXOs. I believe, if hyper-bitcoinization is achieved, we’ll experience unimaginably high fees, so you’ll want as few UTXOs as possible, maybe even just one (I don’t care about privacy).

No-Brilliant5348

Well, what if I don't want to buy my Bitcoin from anyone. I want to earn without transacting with a tone but the protocol. Also a family living on $50 a week can mine Bitcoin. Maybe they should look into getting better jobs first though. Energy isn't wasted to heat. It's converted into money. Also adding renewable energy capacity is cheap whereas energy storage is expensive. Bitcoin and other PoW monetarily incentive further renewable electricity development. Also that poor family from your example could probably find a small power source and get a small ASIC and point it to a pool and get some sats. When I was mining BTC I was poor. BTC finally bought me a lot of basics I otherwise wouldn't have had back then. I had no stable paycheck back then. PoS is rich get richer because they're rich. Also no initial distribution can really be fair so once one person accumulated a big amount of PoS coin that POS can just sit on it and live like royalty. Then the poor family living on $50 a week are all his servants....

sevenethics

How would someone set up a prepared transaction? Obviously a person can set up an email to send on March 15, 2099. But I have never seen that option with BTC.

sevenethics

0.18 BTC thank you very much. :)

SnooStrawberries7995

There's no one as articulate to explain BTC than Michael Saylor let's be honest he has done so much.

Yorn2

Let's see, since May of 2011 there has been the MyBitcoin hack/rugpull, the first MtGox hack, the second MtGox hack, the implosion of MtGox, like a dozen other exchange hacks or rugpulls. Also however many dark markets that collapsed. Then you have to consider how many of them sold at $20, $50, $100, $1k, $10k, and more. And yes, they weren't supposed to include coins they had on exchanges, but how many of them actually answered with coins supposedly in their own wallets? Also, for what it is worth, Roger Ver probably had 50-100k around this time. Also, the guys who ran the two biggest Western exchanges at this time, Mt Gox and Tradehill, were both regulars on the forums. The guy who ran the biggest Eastern exchange, BTC-e, was also probably on the forums but remained anonymous.

CoffeeTeaOrCoke

I own my company. Ran Fidelity 401k since 2001. Spoke to Fidelity myself. So did HR and our accounting people. The BTC will not be added. Ever. To access it, employees must open a trading account. As of the moment, it is not even plausible.

YuSmelFani

Not stocks of companies that have no BTC in their coffers.

TheGreatMuffin

> Here is an interesting fact that is sort of related. Back on May 18, 2011 a miner purposely claimed 49.99999999 BTC instead of 50 BTC as a tribute to Satoshi. That was block 124724. https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/block/124724 > > The miner said, "I did it as a tribute to our missing Satoshi: we are missing Satoshi, and now the blockchain is missing 1 Satoshi too, for all time." that was u/midmagic, the legend :)

rotund_passionfruit

Damn come on do the math, I suck at it, I want to be a 1%er in BTC terms I can't afford top 0.001%

MYKEGOODS

Just open a coinbase.com account, buy BTC and hold until BTC is $1million. Why you doing so much?

gen66

The question is, once the US dollar fails, what would be best to hold in order to offset for the huge markets and economy crash? Stocks, BTC, Gold?

lucifer4you

Google tells me me the top 1% of the worlds population own 43% of all global financial assets. Assuming that's true and the human count posted is accurate (8 bil), 1% (80 mil) would own 9.03 million btc, which would give each 1%er 0.11 BTC. Good question and nice to see you lol.

Quirky_Box4371

Send me your BTC, and I'll handle. Seriously thou, this is insane.

AllCapNoBrake

Oh he gets it...he just owns a gold business that directly competes w/ BTC. He holds BTC, he just can't let his Boomer clientele know.

jkd-guy

I'm curious how they define "safe"? Additionally, ERISA makes them a fiduciary and can be held liable for catastrophic or negligent losses to one's retirement. A possible solution is to petition for a self-directed brokerage window (i.e., Schwab, Fidelity, etc). That way you can have access to BTC ETFs on a particular platform. Moreover, have them just cap the % you can invest in a BTC ETF (i.e., 10%) which would still provide fiduciary responsibility and safety from being sued.

carlysprando

The miner accidentally didn't claim the block reward. It's not a requirement for the miner to claim the block reward. A block is still valid and will be accepted even if the miner doesn't claim the block reward. It's very rare and it's only really ever done by mistake. There will actually never be 21 million bitcoins because of situations like this. --- Here is an interesting fact that is sort of related. Back on May 18, 2011 a miner purposely claimed 49.99999999 BTC instead of 50 BTC as a tribute to Satoshi. That was block 124724. https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/block/124724 The miner said, "I did it as a tribute to our missing Satoshi: we are missing Satoshi, and now the blockchain is missing 1 Satoshi too, for all time."

Distorted203

Yes you can sue them. The big issue will be to prove you were going to buy BTC. Do you have any conversations (with anyone) recorded that your goal is to buy BTC "right now" but can't because Coinbase lost your money? Those will be key. Also, understand your risk. You can sue them and you sound like you do habe a legit case, but it won't be cheap. Expect that if you do sue them it will need to be for a good amount more to account for that under inconvenience/frustration and negative impacts on your life. If you win, you will get your money back, legal fees covered, and probably a big chunk for the inconveniences/pain suffering. If you lose, this will have cost you 10s of thousands you won't see again. Depending on your situation it may bankrupt you. Option 3: middle ground. You hire a lawyer to try to negotiate a out or court settlement. Will cost a few thousand.

HighTMath

The way BTC is designed makes it statistically impossible to guess (brute force) any address with money on it. The book Mastering Bitcoin by Andreas Antonopolos goes into great depth about the mathematics behind it. Your partner got scammed.

BitcoinAcc

The answer to your question is "no", in most cases. The receiver can see the older transaction history too. Assume that the sender has 10 BTC in his address A (in a single UTXO) and needs to pay the receiver 2 BTC. So he send's 2 BTC to the receiver and (because that's how it works) the remaining 8 BTC go to a change address C of the sender. It is correct that the receiver can view this transaction and would see the 2 that were sent from A to him, and would also see the 8 that went back into change address C of the sender. So the receiver would know, that in addition of the 2 BTC, the sender owns at least another 8 BTC. Your idea is now, to put another address (and transaction) in between. With this, he sender would first send 2 BTC from his address A to another address B in his own wallet. So, in this first transaction, 2 would go from A to B (both belonging to the sender) and 8 would go to the change address C (also belonging to the sender). Then in a second transaction, the sender would send the full amount of 2 from B to the receiver (this time there would be no change, as it's the full amount). So, you would have two transactions: T1: 2 from A to B and 8 from A to C T2: 2 from B to receiver The receiver sees this T2 and sees that the full amount went to him. So, yes, at this point he can only see that the sender had 2 in B. He doesn't know about the rest - yet. Because if the receiver then looks into the history of B to see how the 2 got there, he sees T1 too. After all, it's kind of suspicious, that the sender just happened to have an address with exactly the right amount to pay the receiver, with no rest remaining, so it's no big leap to ask yourself, how this came to pass. So you look at how B came to be funded and see T1. And when the receiver sees T1 (which also likely has a timestamp just a bit earlier than T2), which happens to transfer exactly the amount to B that is later used to pay the receiver from B, then it doesn't require a genius to deduce, that T1 was just a misguided attempt to hide the remaining 8 BTC from the receiver and that the 8 that are now in C also belong to the sender.

pablo_in_blood

Your best bet to avoid taxes is either to sell in person for cash (if you have a trusted party to sell to, i.e. old friend or family that wants some non-KYC BTC of their own) or to use the BTC to buy something highly fungible online (i.e. gold, which you can then exchange for cash tax free at various jewelry stores or whatever) - which will still have a small premium but less than cap gains in most cases

Wanderstand

Sponsor a no-coiner. Buy $29.52 in BTC today.

CarlosTheJackal2021

Anyone else not like to use #BTC for payment based solely on the complications it creates for taxes? I hate the idea of having to claim capital gains or loses on any transaction...

Dank_Hank79

I'm hoping Bitcoin can give me a shot at a decent retirement. BTC currently accounts for ~25% of my portfolio. That number is creepind upwards, and if there was a big enough crash, I'd likely liquidate most of my other investments and go all-in.

No-Air2768

I ended up selling the house for more than I borrowed. Used the profit to buy and fix up my current house. Earliest I will sell would be 2033 when my boy graduates. Almost exactly 9 years from now. Hopefully we can just pay for some things in BTC by then so I never have to put it back into dirty USD.

Puzzled_Bank_9028

I have a friend who purchased 100 BTC in June 2013 and sold in 2016 - he is securely ‘retired’ at age 35!

Broarethus

One of the scariest things for an investor, is a simply made animation showing off guaranteed exponential profits, based on previous gains. "See? The line goes up to infinity, because the line went up before". Also at a million per coin, it would make BTC the biggest asset by market cap at like $20 Trillion, which would be even higher with coins that are lost.

TotalSpread5841

We had a contract where I lodge money to them and in return they allow me buy BTC.

AllCapNoBrake

How much BTC can a miner mine, if a BTC miner could mine BTC?

TotalSpread5841

By restricting my ability to buy for 3 months they literally forced me to buy at 65k. I entered a contract with them to buy BTC.

TotalSpread5841

I made another successful lodgement 2 days before. I bought BTC at 40k with that lodgement and sold it recently for 65k so I would try and use that transaction as proof that I would have bought and sold at a substantial profit. Had I been able to do the same with the 100k "lost" lodgement I would have made a profit of approx 65k so that's what I want to sue for.

jtrom1010

Chicken or the egg, eh? However, obviously neither of us could be correct, but I don't know if I fully agree with your thesis. I don't know how much more real world adoption we could truly expect for BTC at this point. I definitely think market cap will go up long term, I think **more** people will get into it, but I think between participation and normie awareness BTC is out of milestones for "adoption" unless your definition of that is using it as an official currency. I also don't think it's about elevating current projects into top 100 blue chips or anything like that. I just think tradfi and tech getting into the space will **create** those projects. Let's use Ondo and Render as an example (not holding bags of both, just good examples here). Even if they don't end up as legacy blue chips, let's say tradfi hops into Ondo's use case, and tech/SaaS/creatives hop on to Render's. You've naturally created B2B demand (and I think the B2B component is more important than more retail or more institutions). All of a sudden you have far reaching adoption implications, and you also create a market where more legit players are incentivized to join the space, and more legit VCs are interested in funding it. That natural competition, on top of the progress we're getting from the Bases and Solanas, would theoretically help solve the usability obstacles. While I don't disagree that accessibility is the biggest roadblock overall, I'd still argue that it doesn't matter as much from a pure retail sense. Think of all the counterintuitive, even complex SaaS systems that businesses use now. Many of them aren't even prohibitively difficult, they're just a very specific use case and require training when employees join a new company. Given the upleveling of Dapps and just UX across the space, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a similarly realistic learning curve if blockchain tech gets adoption. **Tl;dr I think BTC is far off its potential market cap but adoption is less a thing. B2B entry into the space just requires a good use case and that will cascade from there, for better or worse.**

dou8le8u88le

The one with least possible gains. So probably BTC. Unless you plan on holding long term, then don’t sell the btc.

TotalSpread5841

Yes thank you. A few days prior I had made a lodgement of 40k which was successfully received. I bought BTC with it and subsequently sold that BTC around the top.

Past-Ride-7034

Can you prove you were going to buy 100k of BTC at 40k?

fivebillionproud

I'm with you on my $600k in 2034. My prediction is that BTC will break $1m for the first time, even for just a few seconds, between 2034-2036.

Responsible_Cod_1453

I thought it would be more BTC 🤔

dvidergar

Thinking of adding a coin or 2 to my portfolio. I currently have BTC, ETH, LINK, KAS. Thinking of something like DOT, Doge, HBAR. Any suggestions?

lordinov

How can they not own atleast half a block of Bitcoin (a block was 25 BTC 2013) ?

HappyGoLacky

And if you can successfully find “lost wallets” why not just go and find them, why charge others 3k to do it for them? Hey I found 25 BTC in a lost wallet for you, that’ll be $3k please 🤷🏻‍♂️

Own_Sky9933

Use a Bitcoin only exchange. Strike/River/Swan you will have lower spreads and fees. CashApp is honorable mention but the fees are higher because of using a debit card vs ACH and their spreads are higher. As other have mentioned having too many small UTXOs can be problematic in the future when fees are high. For example CashApp has free withdrawal over .001 BTC, only problem is having a ton of those transactions can be expensive to move when fees are higher. Thus the general recommendation to use about .01 as a threshold for withdrawal. It might take some time post halving but below 10 sats per byte is a likely a good time to consider UTXO consolation. Can use coin control on your hardware wallet to select individual UTXOs when consolidating. Wallets like Sparrow that integrate with most hardware devices are also popular for this.

harvested

C'mon.. It's a nice animation but you can't model the future value of something like BTC. Too many variables.

jetylee

How many are we talking about? Give everyone 1 BTC now. Put the responsibility on them. Use the rest to insure you die, naked, overdosed, in Vegas, with hookers after partying for six weeks.

Haunting-Student-756

BTC is ONLY real non shitcoin

ARoundForEveryone

>SOL flips ETH No. >SHIB catches DOGE and they have a dog fight *looks up market caps...* Sure, this could happen. >The “Big” dip (>33%) This will happen (again), but will it happen before any of these others? Probably not. Before *all* of the others? No F'ing way. >A Trump meme coin enters top 100 Crazier things have happened...like a dog meme coin being in the top 10, and a meme-of-a-dog-meme-coin being just outside the top 10. Meta-meme-coins...if there's a place for that, even temporarily, then a memecoin based on a real person could surely crack the T100. Especially someone memeable and whose public image goes hand in hand with "money" (and lack thereof - bankruptcy). >Another country/sovereign wealth fund publicly announces BTC purchases My money would be on this one, if it wasn't for... >BTC reaches ATHs Soon, I hope, and believe. Our ATH was just six weeks ago. It's never a straight line up, and a pullback or two, even for six weeks at a time, can be (and have been) part of a bull run. >Mr 100 is Elon Had to Google this. No idea who it could be, and it might be Elon, but it could be any of a million billionaires or any of a million companies or any of a hundred shady cabals. So I'm not gonna bet on this one.

gydu2202

Yeah, those loosers who don't own even 10 BTC.

Dynasty__93

I don’t know how accurate this is tbh. If BTC dropped to $40k this afternoon I’d buy more. If it hit $100k tomorrow I’d sell bc that would be overvalued for May2024. I’ve been buying and selling a lot this year and so far have made some nice money.

fishnislife

Mr 100 is Michael Kim of Korea or Upbit exchange itself off setting its own holdings. BTC will need to reach ATH’s for any of the others to happen. And Doge nor ETH will NOT be flipped I think Boden or Tooker would be political memes that can reach top 100 And the 33% “BIG” dip is just par for the coarse. Expect it and plan for it. BTC ATH is my guess

Void_Sloth

If you are holding the BTC ETFs you are not holding Bitcoin, and unless its "In Kind" you dont even have an IOU for Bitcoin.

Backieotamy

Ive decided to consolidate all my alt into 5. Im betting on shib to outperform doge and then converted all the other garbage (ada, algo, xrp etc..) into SOL, ETH, BTC & SHIB. I may divest back into some of these, but for now, I am simplifying to this.

uncapchad

Saylor's always great too but this session answered more questions and gave great insight what challenges BTC had/still has. Stuff which gets asked in many different ways in this sub every day.

jimbob202020

If retirement is < 2 year out. Then yes. If it’s >20 years then having a BTC allocation is fine. I would not advise 100% allocation in any asset, including BTC.

Unclestanky

No, 1 BTC = 1 BTC, they are fungible.

Archophob

and by then, those of us who have at least 0.1 BTC can claim to be "above average".

frombraintopinky

No. Blockchain operates perfectly well without tokens or coins. Tokens or coins are, at best, the reward for maintaining the chain going but they are not required. If someone is using a Blockchain for a legitimate use they will set up a private chain without the need for the game-theory reward model on which BTC and other coins are based. Toekinizing an asset or introducing a smart contract don't require anyone producing or holding coins.