TOR

No-City94

I use TOR.

Gold_Phishy

Hey, just got my pi5 set up. Bitcoin core synced, working, all good. Question is, to accept inbound we're better to use TOR, I presume? Not sure about opening 8333 and exposing my IP.. I'll need to sit my pi outside the firewall. Are there any security issues I should know about? Close ports? Disable anything? Limit connections? Any help appreciated.

Anahihah

Thankfully we have TOR, I2P, VPN, Decentralized markets, and offshore exchanges, so these aren't the kind of things we worry about.

bigbarryb

Depending on what messagesyou are thinking about, this actually was a problem until recently. VPNs and TOR solve a lot of these issues, an ISP cannot see where you are sending traffic if you use a VPN, at best they could block access to VPNs. But apart from that, Bitcoin is a peer to peer network, TOR actually is the same, so TOR solves this but of course at a cost of speed. TOR is slow. The problem was/is that Bitcoin nodes have been communicating with each other in plain text without encryption. Even your banking website uses encrypted communication, in fact all websites these days use it. Heard of SSL? With this, an ISP could look at the contents of your message and block it. Anyway, a recent release of Bitcoin core now uses encrypted messaging and eventually everyone will use this. So now you are sending messages to random locations, ISP doesn't know where all the Bitcoin nodes are, and the contents are encrypted. Mission complete.

Blicky83

Silk Road was my introduction to Bitcoin 😂A guy I worked with was buying up all types of crazy substances..I actually thought Bitcoin was made for Silk Road and similar dark websites you could access through TOR

Cheap-Cold-5255

Man do you really think:“This Genius programmer is hiding his real identity, I can make a 1 hour research session on the internet and find out his real identity“. He probably used a VPN, maybe they even used the same server. Maybe the „proof“ is fake to begin with to generate clicks. Satoshi was careful, genius, and didn’t want to be found. He probably even onionised his router and used TOR and 3 different VPNs.

myhappytransition

wasabi works over TOR, so it wont know which country you are using it from. >if the charges stick, there will be absolutely nothing stopping the gov from making the future of bitcoin privacy and permissionlessness impossible. Lol, you are missing the entire point of bitcoin from day one. Satoshi always knew that the government would want to kill bitcoin; so he made it decentralized with no head to cut off. Just because some people built centralized services and got their heads cut of does nothing to change the nature of bitcoin. People should be making decentralized services if the understand bitcoin, Its that simple. Yes; the bank goverment always has and always will try to kill competitors. be ready for it. > and to answer your other observation: I've been active in bitcoin space since 2019. Okay, well for newcomers like you I suggest reading the white paper and really trying to understand it. Bitcoin is permissionless and fundamentally decentralized. Its survival does not and can not depend on centralized services.

mikedensem

It’s traceable so you’re not doing a secret transaction. Try doing it via TOR

Equal_Classroom_4707

"Like I said, they won't stop just because the code is open source." They can stop right there actually. If you look at it yourself, you'd understand why that's the case.  "Quantum computing and AI could make the cryptographic mechanisms behind bitcoin and wallets factually useless." Bitcoin would be the last issue in the world at that point because the entire security infrastructure of every bank, every security protocol is done. How has that worked previously? Security protocols get upgraded in advance of those issues. Not just in the crypto space but what the entire technological world is using. People have plenty of thoughts about these things. Just not in this forum anymore. This is a casino on Reddit filled with noobs.  Anyone can make a copycat, they already have. Networks thrive off of users. The MIC would not have anywhere near the organic users BTC does. So in a sense BTC is a naturally grown hive that fed off individual users for almost a decade before mainstream ever heard of it. Try to recreate that. And at this point, the largest threat is governments making it illegal to individually posses. What a giant obstacle that would be if you have an understanding of nodes, how the source code actually works, and have access to TOR. All of these things are extremely easy to accomplish. There's no way in hell anyone with a technical background went into or attempted to have meetings with Nakamoto or his camp without first understanding that this cannot be undone.  Would they ask him to surrender his personal holdings? To publicly say the project is dead and move to this other project with the backing of a 3 letter? To erase him? The guy or team was extremely intelligent. The fact that he disappeared around the same time could equally mean he went into hiding as opposed to them silencing him. You can refer to his awareness of the forums through his hive comment.  But again, all the things you mentioned have been covered a million times already amongst devs. At this point the only way to attack BTC, would be to offline 51% of the worldwide nodes, and simultaneously bring up 51% of the network nodes, forge the ledger into oblivion and commit double spends all over the place.  To achieve this you would need an astronomical amount of hash, infrastructure, coordination with world governments. With that last bit being highly unlikely. And all of this to say, is you're suggesting BTC is the largest threat to the world financial systems as is.  Literally the easiest and most common method of disruption they could do is to ban the individual ownership of it. Just like they did with gold. You cannot own it personally, but you can own a note that's worth x amount of Satoshi. Then incriminate violators. Bring down every CEX. Create an alternative DEX. Build in actual backdoors, lock up enough liquidity and bring down the entire crypto trading infrastructure as it is.  If they were actually as concerned as you think, they wouldn't be auditioning off the hundreds of thousands of coins they have confiscated through the years. Through American OTC CEX's, and through ETF's alone, they can perform enough price manipulation TODAY, to prevent BTC from ever becoming some 1 single ultimate currency replacement.

Ok_Breakfast_88

I guess we are talking about 2 different nodes. Running a TOR node is not safe. Running a Bitcoin node is safe.

LiveDirtyEatClean

I don’t even know what an exit node is. I run a bitcoin full node behind TOR.

SmoothGoing

If it's not possible to know the number of nodes it isn't possible to know how many connect over TOR. Needs a probably or perhaps somewhere in your claim there.

LiveDirtyEatClean

They’re just going after companies that facilitate non KYC. Individuals can easily fly under the radar with TOR, running their own node, etc

Ivanow

I would disagree. TOR was famously started by US Navy labs. USA funds many projects that might seem incompatible at a first glance, but the general approach seems to be “if we don’t create it, someone else will. And it’s better to be at forefront of developments than playing catch up game afterwards”.

zer0fks

You can be fully synced and not expose 8333 for inbound. You can also advertise over TOR and allow inbound without any IPv4 exposure.

stanley_fatmax

Depends who you're hiding from. Gov or private entities? The big exchanges are the latest safest mixers, but then of course there is a record of everything. Plenty of mixers exist on TOR but you have to integrate into a community to truly understand the options before you dive in, because there are a lot that have a tendency to gobble up coins randomly. Middle ground is a P2P transaction, or hopping to a more forgiving cryptocurrency and using that as your mixer. Everything comes with risks. What choice you make depends on your specific requirements.

bitusher

>Coinbase to this private seller is probably what caused this? yes > Would a hot wallet suffice to avoid the issue Yes, everyone should have a hot wallet to spend and replace from I would choose Blockstream green because : 1) It has a ton of features like RBF fee bumping , TOR , multiple accounts , 2fa , multisig , and using your own full node. Any wallet that lacks RBF fee bumping should be avoided 2) It is well peer reviewed, smaller attack surface , open source , and has reproducible builds https://walletscrutiny.com/android/com.greenaddress.greenbits_android_wallet/ 3) It has a non custodial lightning wallet built in for instant confirmations for a penny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtMXsJxx1X0 4) Its very easy to use and has a nice UX https://blockstream.com/green/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DesN85bWmGA >Bitcoin from Coinbase wallet Coinbase non custodial toshi app ? Thats one of the worst choices

EdgeLord19941

It's for people who aren't logged in and are using TOR/VPN I believe

Close_enough_to_fine

Well, I have the pi and it’s sitting in a box doing nothing. I figure, why not? I do have a question though. I was planning on SSH and self compile. I’d like to only run through the TOR network. Is there any advantage to an SSH setup over a GUI install? I figure, once setup, it can run for years. I have unlimited internet and I’m rarely home anyway. lol

digihippie

Right, TOR is vulnerable to node attacks by owning most the nodes. Bitcoin is not.

Frogolocalypse

? I'm not sure how TOR related to this discussion...

Frogeyedpeas

Who says it’s not a threat? Of course it is. But it’s not only coming after bitcoin. It’s coming after everything, banks, spies, TOR, the whole 9 yards.  If BTC can successfully embrace post quantum crypto and ppl move to post quantum wallets it’ll be fine. If someone like Satoshi still doesn’t move their coins, the community will have to burn or blacklist the address since anyone can rob it in a post quantum world.

digihippie

Right, there is no TOR like vulnerability with Bitcoin.

subdep

Yeah, this guy should have used a VPN/TOR with Duck Duck Go. Dip shit probably used Google while signed in to Google.

Cheap-Cold-5255

Get out of here with your 2 brain cells, it has the highest TPS with very low cost and good security. It’s a good ecosystem with a lot of support from developers. Nobody is in on your paranoia trip with decentralisation/centralisation. We actually want useful technology in day to day life not live in our moms basement with onion routers and TOR.

SmoothGoing

Depends on personal preferences. TOR and VPN can help with privacy, sure.

suuperfli

naw just use TOR yea they can kill u but still won't get ur btc :)

Ilovekittens345

They also don't seem to understand that if somebody publishes a whitepaper under their real name if would not make sense they would at the same time only connect to Bitcointalk forum using TOR and only use an encrypted anonymous email service. They also would not say things like "We have kicked the hornets nest" What does make sense is that they DID want to be anonymous, and hide their true identity forever. And so they picked the Japanese equivalent to John Doe. With about 800 000 Japanese man called Satoshi. No better way to chose a name that reveals nothing and also signals that they want to be anonymous. I don't know why that is so hard for people to grasp.

Ilovekittens345

The NSA had a very hard time with TOR, maybe nowadays they control enough exit nodes but in 2008 ... hmmmm

Ilovekittens345

Satoshi was known to use the TOR network on everything.

PsyOmega

Once you're on the fed radar there's not much you can do. Most TOR exits are in Langley, most onion nodes as well. They can't trace every packet, but they only need one packet.

CxKappaCx

Always seems to be the downfall when seeing things like this. Did they have a digital footprint or was it more physical from the parcels etc? I find it hard to understand that if you're using TOR with a VPN how the authorities have enough resources to catch one person, but I guess that depends on the scale of the operation too

snabelOst

Surfshark vpn or TOR browser?

tradingsincesilkroad

I felt like this back in 2012. Unfortunately now, its about money. But still with the case that it is money that can be used more and more in the real world, rather than just on TOR. I love buying my groceries with crypto! It's wild.

SoftPenguins

Trezor has the ability to be used with TOR. Anything that has the ability to connect to the internet is a huge flaw. Just because it isn’t connected right now doesn’t mean it won’t be in the future.

BitcoinAcc

It's a good policy. I do the same with my private node, with Blue Wallet actually. Although I never got the TOR part running properly and now it's gone anyway. But I settled with just inputting my local network IP address (non-TOR). That of course means that it only works while I'm in my local WLAN, but that's good enough for me. I don't view it very often, and never yet had the need to do so while not at home anyway.

keijyu

By the nature of how VPNs work, no one can tell between regular traffic and VPN traffic aside from yourself and the VPN server and maybe the destination server if the IP of the VPN server being used is known to be the address of a VPN server. But, it's also easy to run your own VPN server, maybe even many layers of it which would make it harder to backtrace. For example, TOR in simple terms is just 3 layers of VPNs going through 3 random servers.

DoubleUglyWhisperer

Some ISPs block TOR

whereismyface_ig

2 months later, the FBI put an end to SilkRoad SR 2.0 then commenced shortly after There was some other site as well, but both of these got shutdown Later, Alpha Market appeared. This one operated a few years, and then that one got shut down as well. With each passing market, they lost influence, power, popularity, and if any still exist today, I’d imagine that the userbase has shrunk massively. There were some pretty great threads and information that I haven’t seen anywhere else on the internet. Though, one could say they weren’t on the “internet” anyway… they were in the undernet, the darknet, the darkweb, whatever you want to call it. 🧅 back when every message was sent and received using PGP encryption with keys and etc, having to wire. Adium’s settings to port through TOR for chats with ppl directly. Some even used ICQ

GreenStretch

I think Robert is an A-GI-TA-TOR.

Hitchie_Rawtin

> Where is decentralized internet? As well as MaidSafe this is literally what Dfinity have running right now. Maidsafe will be slower but not as slow as TOR(because anybody can be a node which means tons of shit computers making up a large swathe of the network) but if it gains traction it should be more decentralised, Dfinity operates at normal web speeds and acts as more of a performance-focused distributed and decentralised AWS. There's a bit of a "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it" schism in the community, you can literally send your ETH to the Internet Computer and (checks last ETH transaction fee on the IC) transferring ETH costs $0.00665294. ERC support coming in around two months. Buuuuut people here hate the chart and the name, it gives them the big sads, so even if it's literally doing everything they're asking for, they'll still discount it, shit talk it, pretend it doesn't exist. So they get the fees and the ecosystem they deserve.

suuperfli

many nodes use TOR. blocking IPs won't have any effect on these nodes outlawing the possession- i literally just provided historical examples of bans being ineffective. market price of btc may fluctuate with government bans but it won't stop the protocol from operating or cause demand to suddenly go to 0 worldwide lol

suuperfli

there are hundreds of thousands of nodes dispersed globally, many ran through TOR. there is no way to trace them all , let alone shut them down. Several governments around the world have attempted to ban or heavily restrict the use of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, primarily due to concerns over financial security, regulation, and control over the monetary system. Despite these efforts, the decentralized and peer-to-peer nature of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin has made it challenging to enforce such bans effectively. Users in these countries often continue to trade and use Bitcoin through peer-to-peer networks, VPNs, and other methods that bypass restrictions. Here's a list of some countries that have attempted such bans or severe restrictions, with varying degrees of enforcement and success: China: China has been known for its stringent stance on cryptocurrencies, implementing a series of bans that culminated in 2021 with the prohibition of cryptocurrency transactions and mining. Despite these efforts, there is evidence that peer-to-peer trading and offshore exchanges continue to facilitate cryptocurrency activities among Chinese users. India: India has had a complicated relationship with cryptocurrencies, with the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) imposing a ban on bank transactions with crypto-related businesses in 2018. However, this ban was overturned by the Supreme Court in 2020. The government has since proposed legislation to ban most cryptocurrencies while planning to create a framework for an official digital currency. Nigeria: In 2021, Nigeria's central bank prohibited banks and financial institutions from dealing in or facilitating transactions in cryptocurrencies. Despite this, Nigeria remains one of the largest markets for cryptocurrency, with users turning to peer-to-peer trading platforms to bypass the ban. Russia: While not outright banning cryptocurrencies, Russia has imposed strict regulations that limit their use, including banning the use of cryptocurrencies for payments. However, peer-to-peer and over-the-counter trading of cryptocurrencies continues to thrive. Bolivia: The Central Bank of Bolivia outright banned any currency or coins not regulated by the government in 2014, including Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Despite this, there is still interest and use of cryptocurrencies within the country through more discreet channels. Algeria: Algeria has banned the use, holding, buying, selling, or possession of virtual currencies, including Bitcoin, under its financial law from 2018. The enforcement of this ban and its impact on cryptocurrency usage within the country is less clear. Bangladesh: Bangladesh Bank issued a warning against conducting transactions in cryptocurrency, and the government has taken measures to curb the use of Bitcoin, citing legal and financial risks. Despite these measures, reports suggest that cryptocurrency usage continues among tech-savvy individuals and groups. Morocco: In 2017, Morocco's foreign exchange authority declared that transactions using digital currencies constitute a violation of exchange regulations and are subject to penalties. Nonetheless, cryptocurrency trading persists in the country through peer-to-peer platforms.

divinesleeper

onion routing is compromised by a majority of feds running nodes, that's why TOR has been compromised for years and you're a fool if you think LN isn't.

Mr-BitcoinMaxi

6. Learn about running a node and do it through TOR 7. Learn about the dangers of kyc 8. Learn about non-kyc bitcoin, how to store it, not get it mixed with your kyc bitcoin or coin join 9. Learn how to lose your bitcoin in a boating accident

kajunkennyg

The cryptographers was a small community back then and most worked for the gov, wouldn't surprise me if it was a group project for some secret nas/cia thing that they had to release to cover what they wanted to do, just like TOR.

kajunkennyg

I think it was crypto guys working for the cia/nsa and they released it like TOR to hide what they were really doing. I am pretty sure they setup the silk road guy etc but used silk road to accomplish some mission.

Bitcoin_Maximalist

The most common solution to this issue is to avoid using an IP at all, and instead use the TOR network to be your node’s access point to the wider network. This is the default for most node-in-a-box solutions such as Umbrel. While TOR is not as reliable as clearnet, it protects your location.

SoggyHotdish

Are they not worried about an alternative economy popping up? If they push this too far people will just move things to the dark web. Does the DW have decentralized data storage yet? We need some sort of unstoppable servers just like we have for accessing TOR/DW

bitcoin_barry

Banning YouTube videos is more like banning a supermarket from accepting payment in Bitcoin. Yeah they can do that. But banning Bitcoin is more like banning tcp packets, the underlying technology below the Internet. The Internet is permissionless, that is, anyone can create a server and expose it to the internet and start accepting and sending out tcp packets. Of course, what you and I think the internet is involves more than just tcp packets .. there's domain name services, there's Internet service providers. Us as a society choosing to use these services in the name of convenience is what introduces the gatekeeping and allows the government to "ban" access to sites and content. Also companies are how people can organize and make money legally, but all companies are captured. The government has the power to tell any company what to do and if they say you cannot see x footage, then the company will comply. Eventually, too much intervention will lead to more people exploring other options, like finding content on uncensorable platforms like nostr. So government can ban exchanges (company) they can ban trade with big corporations, but it will have a market effect if they do it too late, big corporations will lose revenue for it and fight back. What government cannot do, they cannot stop me from holding Bitcoin, interacting with the network and paying people who do take Bitcoin. Even if I have to use a VPN or TOR to do it. They can make Bitcoin seem useless by banning all of its utility in the country, but they kinda also ban drugs, drink driving, murder, piracy, all of which still happen.

Puzzleheaded-Room657

Yes. It's estimating 2 days to sync. I'm running over TOR, port 9050. I previously installed umbrel but sync was slow and my Ubuntu constantly freezed. Bitcoin core seems doing fine til now

stork83

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mehoart2

Around 2013 I contemplated buying Bitcoin because I had just started going on TOR and found Silk Road... and thought it would be fun to try buying something (mdma) but I didn't because: I thought the feds would intercept. I thought purchasing bitcoin was shady. I did a calculation and didn't want buy BTC as it was like 2BTC for 2 grams and that would've cost me over $400 CDN. Ultimately I only saw BTC as a currency used for illegal activity on the dark web because I hadn't seen it anywhere else. But now.... now I am throwing as much fiat as I can to get more. Also, don't do drugs. Maybe a beer here and there. 🍻

MaxSmart1981

i remember thinking 'if it's this complicated just understanding how to use a TOR browser, no way i'm going to figure out this crypto stuff.'

googleemooglee

Problem solved, thanks to those who responded and messaged me. Turns out I had too much security at my router. For anyone finding this post, I have a UDM Pro, and had to change a few settings. Go to Settings > Security, and uncheck 'Dark Web Blocker' which blocks traffic encrypted by Tor. Also, on 'Detection Sensitivity', click on 'Customize' and uncheck 'TOR'. That did the trick for me.

Bludsh0t

Also TOR was developed by the us gov. They actually have multiple teams set up for such things. One to develop these things and the other to try and break then

EvilBeanz59

The government legit made TOR. Lmfao

sdguy71

Garlic coin? I blew a few hundred on **Deep Onion!** (it was supposed to monetize the TOR network) and lost all of it when Cryptopia got hacked.

GoElastic

These are just the public ones. Mine runs on TOR and does not show up.

Neconspictor

Imho decentralization is about autonomy and not consensus. You can develop a centralized App on ICP, too. You're not forced to be decentralized. But ICP itself is decentralized. I don't agree that centralization means automatically more efficiency. ICP is very efficient. And of course it's about trust. ICP is trustless. TOR and I2P doing something different. Their primary purpose is anonymity. But they don't provide any form of hosting services. They aremore a decentralized VPN. I don't have experience with I2P but TOR is very slow btw.

OfWhomIAmChief

Decentralization only makes sense when there is a consensus needed. Why decentralize a "service" that a centralized entity like AWS or Microsoft Azure can do more efficiently? Is it about trusting the provider or censorship resistance? If its censorship resistance ICP is going for then what is the benefit of using ICP versus hosting a hidden service on TOR or I2P? Seems like solutions already exist to what ICP is trying to do.

SmoothGoing

Website is not a wallet. Bitcoin is not anonymous, TOR or not. Read the basics first before trying to hide stuff.

brianddk

Don't forget that there is a GIT and HTTP mirror of bitcoincore.org on TOR Announce: https://bitcoincore.org/en/2020/03/27/hidden-service/ ^(TOR: http://6hasakffvppilxgehrswmffqurlcjjjhd76jgvaqmsg6ul25s7t3rzyd.onion/)

analogOnly

Namecoin was the ENS equivolent based on the BTC blockchain it allowed for dynamic name system. Namecoin project kinda fell off but it's technology is still used in places like ZeroNet which is a decentralized internet which operates offline and is used online to get new information. It also integrates the TOR network.

Playful_Stand6721

Not that I have ever learned or read anything about them… But there’s always non-kyc bitcoin, coinjoins, buying peer to peer, TOR, peer to peer anonymous free open source software etc No government can stop bitcoin

ckhumanck

it's weird the responses in this thread. Like the - traditional - cypherpunk movement is definitely not against this service. Not to mention US alphabet agencies created TOR does that make them pedophiles? I'm surprised to see multiple comments condemning this man and this service. Either this is a deliberate smear by a party with an agenda. Or the cause itself is truly just lost. Probably both.

Nordle_420D

Ah yes, just needs to ban VPNs and TOR as well. Why not just ban the internet?

Ilovekittens345

that is nonsense. coinjoin is very safe and the upgraded version, cashfusion works even better. Fully decentralised over TOR, there is no risk there.

Ilovekittens345

I use Electron Cash which has cashfusion build it, it auto mixes all my sats with everybody else using a decentralised protocol over TOR. If I need more privacy I'll atomic swap in to XMR. If I need to be protected against the price going down, I'll enter a hedging smart contract. This way I only need to trust an exchange for just enough time to sell for fiat, when I need it. Exchanges are like public toilets, you do your business then get the hell out of there.

Strong_Stranger_3339

this is not true as the node is running over TOR

KorakDM

Success could be its demise. Risks: 1) The throughput is too low for billions of people to self-custody so most people are driven into custodial solutions. Those solutions ultimately eliminate privacy and censorship resistance for most of the world. BTC on chain is as fringe as TOR. 2) ETF's and their equivalents gradually absorb too much supply. A significant portion of transactions occur off-chain in ETFs and custodial solutions. The fee market doesn't materialize while halvings continue. Miner diversity decreases (not just pool concentration problem) and overall security erodes. 3) Let's say 1&2 occur, a new blockchain leveraging all we've learned emerges with better solutions to problems Bitcoin didn't handle well. It takes the "Sovereign Store of Value" crown as the only option to avoid governments and big corps which have bastardized our once promising BTC. Monetary premium erodes, race for the exits ensues, and chaos until a new layer 1 leader emerges for humanity to try again. This is not a prediction. It's a risky path that isn't impossible. (Hopefully VERY unlikely.)

jam-hay

>Blockchain has an immense security risk. It hasn't realized yet with big blockchains because there is no incentive to spend billions in an attack just to destroy the chain. Governments/ industry can't even be bothered spending billions taking out TOR or the Gnutella network that's been running for almost 25 years. Not only would it be political suicide and technically highly improbable it would probably spark a wave of cyber warfare at least. Then for what? Everybody would just migrate to the next largest/ most popular chain in protest. Blockchain isn't going away let alone stopped.

ECore

No I mean that the FBI ran a ton of TOR nodes and processed most of the transactions and were able to crack TOR onion privacy measures.

ECore

what if it is like a TOR honeypot where the FBI runs all the nodes and herds people into them like sheep?

ECore

Couldn't they do the same as they did to TOR? Run nearly all the nodes that are processing the contracts?

BitcoinAcc

> So you're saying that even with using a VPN that obscures your IP address, your identity for all your addresses (or UTXOs or public keys?) may still be compromised when you deal with a merchant using any one of your UTXOs, if that merchant knows your identity? Yes. *If* that merchant has previously obtained the information that the address from which you sent your payment is linked to your other addresses. Which can happen if any of the public nodes that your wallet uses has sold this info to the merchant. Note, that even if this is not happening now, already now any public node can easily record this information, just in case it may become valuable in the future. I.e. even if there currently is no market for this information (and there may very well already be one, coin analysis is a thing already), it is still something that nodes may already be collecting, for future revenues. > But how will that not be the case if you're running your own node? Is it because your bundled query is not visible to others? Yes. In that scenario the wallet only talks to your own node (preferably either on the local network only or via TOR) so no one else even sees this information. And can therefore also not collect or sell it.

SpiritedSuccess5675

I have a blockchain wallet for 8 years now I use blockchain only through TOR browser, for reasons. But thanks for letting me know

peterisnothere

I would actually put all of the IOT stuff on a separate network. In case IOT device gets hacked, your PCs and file servers will not be affected. It is a bit complicated though, that's why I mentioned guest wifi network as easy alternative. A lot of consumer routers have this feature, but you won't be able to access your bitcoin node locally, as guest network usually isolates each client. You can still get access over TOR network.

BigGaynk

No king, Bitcoin "was not made by the system", it is known that the NSA has indeed done research into cryptography. and so has the federal government funded similar research. OTOH how TOR was a Navy intelligence project.

bibimbap0607

No shit Sherlock. I mean it is pretty obvious. Any provider, supplier, manufacturer wants to track how exactly you use their product so that they can focus on places that mostly used and increase their profit even more. I don’t know it’s like common sense 101 or something these days. Guess everyone likes to shit on Ledger nowadays. If you want complete privacy get yourself TailsOS, use VPN and TOR. And move funds with Monero or something. As for me, I am just trying to move my puny $100 in BTC in this age of wild on-chain fees. Last thing I care about is Ledger knowing how many times I pressed left button on their device and how late at night was that.

TestablePredictions

I've had my eye on this one for some time, but haven't personally used it. The recent scourge of airdrop geo-blocking that defeats even Brave's TOR mode has had me considering taking the plunge. Why did you choose Meile over the others? I've had my eye on that one in particular because I haven't found any other that runs in desktop Linux.

KathryneMarville

Discussing or suggesting methods to mislead or deceive any financial or regulatory entity is unethical and potentially illegal. It's important to understand that actions like faking a boating accident, using VPNs or TOR to hide transactions, or falsely claiming theft to conceal assets are forms of fraud. Financial regulations and oversight, including chain analysis in cryptocurrency, are designed to prevent illegal activities such as money laundering and tax evasion. Circumventing these controls not only undermines the integrity of financial systems but also contributes to a broader range of criminal activities that these regulations are designed to prevent. Moreover, engaging in such deceptive practices can have serious legal consequences. It's essential to comply with laws and regulations related to financial transactions, including those involving cryptocurrencies. Transparency and honesty in financial dealings are not only legal obligations but also crucial for maintaining trust and stability in financial systems. If you have concerns about privacy or the tracking of your cryptocurrency holdings, it's advisable to consult with a legal expert in financial law or a specialist in cryptocurrency regulations. They can provide guidance on how to manage your assets within the bounds of the law while protecting your privacy as much as possible.

jesuslol

Similar to how the Navy invented the tech behind TOR.

Paris1818

Solid answer, very well written and thought through. Clearly you are not new to the game as most of the world seems to be. No disrespect to BTC OG's... I've been buying myself for over ten+ years, also using PGP and TOR, etc...

JamesBondMI6007

Whataboutism at its finest. There are simple solutions to the problem you just noted. VPN, a browser that blocks data trackers like Brave, TOR to further obfuscate device and data transfer information. Not putting your PII into systems that don’t absolutely require it. Never sharing your SSN number, most places asking for it don’t actually need it and you can just tell them you don’t have an SSN.

dajohns1420

I just went Christmas shopping on one of the two pirate market places. Besides, that wasn't the question. The question was, what is the most private blockchain. That's pirate chain. Pirates anon set is in the millions. Their full node wallet is incredibly easy to use with the highest level of privacy. TOR and i2p compatible along with the highest anon set.

glkwO

The TOR network might be useful.

PSKGM

Think about the old days. I think KYC is a dick move. So I went back to our bartering and trading roots. - Get a hard wallet, exchange with people in-person. - Another option is that there are online sites that allow you to trade gift cards for crypto. I’ll leave you with that. Input gift code, input the receiving wallet, time the slippage and gas fees, then you’re good. Use up old gift cards, buy gift cards privately in cash then use the site, or trade/pay people for their unused gift cards. I don’t need anyone to have my identification to get BTC if I don’t want to. P.S.: If you’re going to do the second option, test the site with a $1 gift card or something AND use TOR **or** a VPN. Some sites are scams and some are legit. They are usually up for about 6mo to a year at a time before they are hit with a notice to comply with KYC or their local laws. They either shut down or have built up such a good market that they implement KYC. So be ready to move on to the next gift card exchange when that time comes.

fverdeja

Only you can see that, what can be seen is when a TX is made, what node pushed it first, but for that, the entity searching will need to be connected to you specifically to know if you really were the first to push that TX. If you're too worried you could either, run all you connections through TOR or wait until Bitcoin Core 26, opt in for the P2P encryption and disconnect from any suspicious node. The other, more paranoid compliant solution would be to push a TX using [Mempool.space's TX Broadcaster](https://mempool.space/tx/push) in their onionized site, to do this you simply create the transaction but never push it to the network, copy the RAW data push it via the service, it would be like using any other public node.

DiedOnTitan

Many countries have already banned Bitcoin: Algeria, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Ecuador, Macedonia, Morocco, Nepal, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. China has restrictions on it, etc. However, decentralized, peer to peer protocols are notoriously difficult to enforce such bans. Some examples of decentralized peer to peer Internet protocols that have resisted censorship and continue despite strenuous efforts to shut them down: BitTorrent is still running despite every effort to ban it by Hollywood and publishers. The TOR onion network is still running despite most authoritarian regime's attempts to ban it. Magnet Link protocol, used in BitTorrent and elsewhere has not been shut down. Bitcoin - all efforts to kill it have failed. In fact, it has only made it stronger. TLDR: Governments do ban Bitcoin, but they can't shut it down. They force the miners to move to other jurisdictions, and the people who want to continue to use Bitcoin are compelled to conceal their activity.

fverdeja

So is the internet, P2P encryption, telephones, cash, TOR, etc, etc, etc... Criminals are criminals and won't stop being so, they'll use whatever is at hand, call it Bitcoin or call it Apple Giftcards.

BTCMachineElf

Do run a node. Use an SSD drive. Pruning can be problematic when adding new wallets, so maybe use a 1 or 2 tb SSD and not prune. Just running core is considered by some to be the proper way, but connecting your wallets to monitor your transactions isn't always straightforward. If you enjoy linux, following guides, and testing yourself, this may be a fun hobby. But you also have the option of running node packages, such as Umbrel or Citadel. These are all-in-one solutions that include bitcoin node software, lightning node software, and wallet bridges like Electrs, along with many other useful home server apps that you can install in an app store, all in a very slick interface and accessable through any PC web browser on the local network or remote through TOR. Some hardcore bitcoiners are concerned that this gives the node packagers too much power over the node layer, in case of a future contested fork. But I think this fear is mostly unfounded. I've met the creator of Umbrel personally and he's a grassroots bitcoiner with no interest causing waves, and if a contested fork does come up, *all* node runners need to reevaluate what software they're using.

brando2131

Yeah obviously. If the intention is to circumvent regional blocks by a website, then VPN is valid and usually faster downloads then Tor. I'm just answering your question "why VPN instead of TOR".

zer0fks

Why use a VPN instead of TOR?

gutturalCod29014

TOR is slow AF, MysteriumVPN and Helium can match most peoples internet speed.

LifeReboot___

OP ever heard about TOR? Idk, but if someone is using my IP to access highly illegal sites, I'll be worried.

Inaeipathy

>The biggest issue with the decentralized VPNs and even for TOR is that being an exit node makes you responsible for any traffic in or out of your connection. Depends on the country, so, not really.

-Argih

The biggest issue with the decentralized VPNs and even for TOR is that being an exit node makes you responsible for any traffic in or out of your connection. So if an user uses your exit node to avoid detection while, torrenting hacking or even worse, doing things related to csam your IP is the one that will be tracked. Like 8 years ago a company developed something like that but using an addon and just tokens minted by the owners instead of crypto, the addon was called "Hola" and was almost immediately abused by bad actors.

nomorebonks

Looking at some of your history you post about TOR, and explain PGP. Maybe you'd be interested in what the **biggest team of cryptographers in the world** is working on: it's called **The Internet Fucking Computer**.

downsyndromeadonis

ATM with burner phone initiated through throwaway email (guerillamail, tutanota, etc.) over VPN and/or TOR into a wallet on a device not associated/littered with your actual name/person (cell phone, etc.). The only problem is the high premium.