BYD

insanecocksmell

stop your nonsense. BYD is having a large manufacturing site being built in Central EU..

ThreeSupreme

**Tesla – The New King In Town?** Tesla has been manufacturing electric vehicles for over a decade and has shown significant progress. They’ve managed to scale production, improve technology, and even achieve profitability, which is a notable accomplishment in this industry. **Tesla's stock valuation is absurdly high compared its actual revenue** Tesla’s stock valuation has indeed been a topic of much debate. While it’s true that Tesla’s current valuation is high compared to its revenue, it’s important to understand that stock prices are often driven by investor expectations about a company’s future earnings potential, not just its current revenue. Even so, Tesla’s stock is worth more than that of Ford, General Motors, Toyota, Volkswagen and Stellantis combined. Even though Tesla is an automaker, it’s valued as more of a tech company, with a share price that puts it in the camp of companies like Apple, Nvidia and Microsoft. **Rank \* Company \* Market Cap** 1 Tesla (TSLA) - **$536.71 Billion**, USA 2 Toyota (TM) - **$305.47 Billion**, Japan 3 Porsche (P911.DE) - **$87.57 Billion**, Germany 4 Mercedes-Benz (MBG.DE) - **$85.15 Billion**, Germany 5 BYD (002594.SZ) - **$84.72 Billion**, China Investors may be pricing in the expectation that Tesla will continue to grow and dominate the electric vehicle market, which is expected to expand significantly in the coming years. They may also be factoring in Tesla’s potential in other areas like energy storage and autonomous driving technology. However, high expectations also mean that Tesla will need to deliver on these growth prospects to justify its valuation. Any setbacks or slower-than-expected growth could impact its stock price. Tesla’s once-robust margins have been in steady decline since Q2 2022, but fell under 20% for the first time in years during the first half of 2023. Tesla reported margins of 18.2% in the second quarter, a result of the automaker’s many price cuts across all models and markets. CEO Elon Musk has attributed the discounts to lower demand in an uncertain economic environment, but analysts also see headwinds in supply chain issues and increasing competition. With the stock price continuing to tumble, bears say Tesla’s share price is starting to reflect the reality of the company: Tesla talks a big game, but in the end, it’s just an automaker with automaker problems. “They’re a metal bender like everybody else,” Kevin Tynan, senior automotive analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, told TechCrunch+. “The bulls want you to believe that Tesla is somehow a different kind of company, and it deserves a different valuation more like what you would afford to a tech company. But the reality is, it has automaker margins now. It has automaker problems and automaker cyclicality in its core business.” While the historical failure rate of auto manufacturers provides some context, it doesn’t necessarily predict the future outcomes for Tesla, Apple, or Google in regard to their respective auto manufacturing endeavors. Their success will depend on their ability to leverage their strengths, navigate challenges, and deliver products that meet the needs and preferences of consumers in a rapidly evolving market.

10outofC

Respectfully, how familiar are you with the international ev market? BYD sold more in the largest market, china than tesla did by a long shot, 100k units. Internationally speaking, BYD and telsa are neck and neck by overall sales and BYD made more cars than tesla for 3 years in a row: https://www.statista.com/statistics/960121/sales-of-all-electric-vehicles-worldwide-by-model/ https://autovista24.autovistagroup.com/news/byd-took-control-of-the-2023-chinese-ev-market/#:~:text=The%20BYD%20Song%20was%20the,second%2Dplace%20Tesla%20Model%20Y. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/24/business/china-ev-industry-competition-analysis-intl-hnk https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q1-2024-ev-sales/ Tesla is losing market share, even in North america. Given the build quality issues, not even to mention supporting musk himself, most prudent consumers will go the company that's associated with stability. That is not tesla.

ilostmyeraser

Oh elon. You never should have bought twitter for donny. Every second of the day..he thinks about what he could have done with that 50 billion. BYD is backed by old buffet. Buffet is the master manipulator. BYD is going to take 30% of the ev market.

pinghing

Will Tesla pump after Elon finds out BYD has been preferred by the Chinese gov over Tesla?

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

BYD is getting a lot of news buzz about their $10k full electric vehicle. [https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/byds-new-ev-starting-under-10000-stoking-fear-rivals/](https://electrek.co/2024/03/22/byds-new-ev-starting-under-10000-stoking-fear-rivals/)

SoZur

BYD is frustrating. Everybody from Tim Cook to my crazy aunt praises that company, but it fails to materialize on the stock price after 2021. BYD needs a bullshitter-in-chief like Elon.

Substantial_Lake5957

It’s was Japanese, then Korean, and now this. I still don’t understand why people are fascinated by Kia or Hyundai these days. I will never buy or even drive any of those for sure. BYD? Only time will tell.

grizzly_teddy

If they wanted to? Sure why not. They won't be as cheap though. BYD heavily reliant on Chinese subsidies and cheap labor. Probably doesn't make sense to open a plant here in the US. Also risky if US consumers will actually buy a Chinese vehicle. I will never buy a Chinese car. Period. Also BYD more or less breaking even on EVs in China, despite cheap labor and subsidies. They really only making money on hybrids right now.

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

TSLAs in an okay spot because Dems will force green transition stuff and Repubs will probably force tariffs. BYD's 10K full electric car is coming for that ass though.

Silver08ToyotaCamry

Didn’t buy BYD @ $4/share

Substantial_Lake5957

So BYD should set up a shop in the states and start selling US made BYD cars?

stockrot

Apparently, big mouth has about 10 shares of BYD sitting in front of a computer and telling other people they don’t know anything. When it’s only accomplishment was he finally figured out how to suck his own dick cause mommy stopped doing it for him.

osiris679

Had an opportunity to buy a few large tranches of BYD , ended up buying some other lots instead

babypho

Rip BYD

NVDAPleasFlyAgain

ARK is basically an inverse fund, as in do the opposite of whatever she does. BYD started their foray into Europe officially this year, and look: [China unsold EVs clogging up Europe ports](https://qz.com/china-evs-demand-sales-electric-cars-ports-1851416312) [Europe Car Sales Drop in March as EV Weakness Persists](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-18/europe-car-sales-drop-in-march-as-ev-weakness-persists?leadSource=reddit_wall) Car sales in general has been fucked this 2 years, leaps puts on automotive is free money but this regard jumped right back in

WEST-OLD-XU

确实，所以只有在A股才有所谓政策牛这种行情，政府对市场干预太深了，导致市场是政府主导的市场，而政府干预后的产业往往会一地鸡毛，新能源汽车应该就是下一个光伏产业，BYD虽然现在成为最大的新能源汽车制造商，但是他利润太薄了，而且目前还在打价格战

cosimonh

The reason why they are flooding the western markets is because consumption in China is abysmal for the size of China. Chinese people are too poor to buy the goods that they produce, except those living in first and second tier cities. With Chinese yuan being kept weak, it makes their goods cheaper to the international market but also means goods from overseas will be more expensive for Chinese consumers. How was BYD able to produce goods cheaply to flood western markets? They are heavily subsidised by the Chinese government. This happened to steel and aluminium production, with China flooding the market with cheap heavily subsidised metal, dumping excess into western markets and greatly affecting US Steel. Pretty unfair trading tactics when it's a foreign government getting involved to crash your market. Sure BYD is doing well as it has firmly got it's got into western markets, but for every BYD, thousands of companies are closing up shop as they couldn't make the cut then couldn't get subsidies from the government. BYD and solar panel manufacturing aren't able to prop up the Chinese market. A taxi ride around Shanghai and taxi drivers will tell you their friends and family's business is doing very poor. Easy for Ray Dalio to crunch some numbers released by the Chinese government and think China will turn a corner soon, but remember China manipulates a lot of their data. People who don't look at the hard reality on the ground level and ignore geopolitics will end up making costly mistakes.

Weekly_vegan

Buffet didn't buy TSLA he bought BYD. You can shut up with your failed investment now. We get it, you bought TSLA at the top and you think it's not a car company.

holololololden

Elon is the one that's gonna lay off thousands of well-paid auto workers not BYD

OxbridgeDingoBaby

I don’t think he’s ever said anything bad against BYD? Plus isn’t he supportive of other car manufacturers? He’s always posting congratulation messages to Ford/Farley on their electric news.

Greengiant2021

BYD is fairly sound investment imo…Cathy wood on the other hand has had a long run of crappy investment luck. BYD yes…. CW NO!

Swamivik

Why comment if you don't know BYD at all and just writing nonsense? BYD made 3 million cars last year and exported 240,000. It's main revenue is in China. EU is not significant for BYD at this time. In China only 33% of cars are EV. The Chinese government is making a significant push for the country to switch to EVs and get rid of Legacy cars. You can see from how China can lock down whole cities for Covid, the government is now pushing the country to fully switch to EV. It is why so many EV makers have sprung up because everyone want a slice of the growing market. In case you didn't know Tesla sold 670k cars in US and 603k cars in China in 2023 and the Chinese market is getting larger due to government directive whereas it is slowing down in the US. The losers are all the legacy car makers especially Japanese like Toyota and Nissan and it seem like Tesla since they are losing market share in China. In terms of exports, BYD is everywhere in Australia, Malaysia and South East Asian countries etc etc It is also building a factory in Thailand, Brazil and Hungary. It is like with most industries, there will be a lot of competition in the beginning and within a few years there will be a consolidation of a few major players left. BYD will be one of them. Buffett buy companies with good management. Why Charlie Munger turned down Tesla for BYD.

EastvsWest

To be fair BYD is a legit player in the EV, manufacturing space. They are fully integrated with production, manufacturing and distribution. The owner is smart and the company is one of the good ones but nobody is going to forgive Ark for selling Nvidia at the bottom right before the AI boom.

stockrot

The EU will follow the United States in a tarriff . Especially if they want funding of the war in their backyard. Russia and China are partners and want to play havoc with the US. So EU goes away... where does BYD sell cars ? Africa?, the saturated Chinese market? TSM isnt building advanced Chip manufacturing in the US because Tiawan like,s the weather in Arizona . And the US is helping them .Cathy Wood got lucky once and made a name for herself me personally I wouldnt invest a nickle with her . I will say she timed TSLA pretty good selling at the top and buying back in lately. The Geopolitcal situation is going to get more volitile so unless BYD can Thrive on Domestic sales I dont see them blowing up . China stocks have been flat to down ,just look at Alibaba.

Swamivik

But BYD is not betting on America. In fact, they specifically said they are not looking to enter the American market due to geopolitical tensions. But everywhere else where there are no tariffs on BYD, they are crushing. Buffett hasn't exited BYD. He is still the largest BYD shareholders of H shares. He specifically mentioned he was reducing his stake due to geopolitical tensions rather than business fundamentals. What is telling is that he completely sold TSMC for the same reason but still has shares in BYD.

Silver-Stable-8268

BYD is Doomed

stockrot

I wouldnt bet too much on that ..... Or at least wait till November , If Trump is elected not one BYD EV will come into the country without a 500% tarriff and the European Union will follow suit. Buffet has exited his position at a huge profit he knows the following . The statement is not political it is just a fact. China,s plan to build in Mexico and flood the market with cheap Chinese EVs wont work . I dont care what political persuasion you are, The United states people are not going for China putting hundreds of thousands of high paid Auto workers in the US out of work. And China themselves has too many EV producers diluting their domestic market bad news for BYD

Swamivik

I broken clock struck twice situation here. I am betting BYD would be one of the few EV makers left when the dust is settled on this price war.

cosimonh

Chinese market is fucked. The population peaked, people too poor to afford more children. Workforce shrinking. The size of the middle class that can properly afford to buy stuff is a lot smaller than what people thought. Their government being hostile to the west is driving decoupling fast. Direct foreign investment has dropped by 90%. Government hijacking one of their biggest tech companies as well as new rules and policies that appear overnight has scared most investors away. Now they are also looking at their housing market bubble deflating where the majority of people's savings are located. There will be some companies that do well, but the majority will be losers so not worth the risk of investing. Even BYD being the biggest electric vehicle manufacturer was heavily subsided by their government to undercut Tesla and other EVs in order to force their way into European and US automobile market. EU is gonna start putting tariffs on these unfair trade practices.

shawman123

how about comparisons with say $QS and $SLDP. Any thing special about $ENVX. I know even Sila nanotech has silicon anode batteries and are working with Mercedes for a long time. There is also Lyten with LiS battery. Its risky to invest in any of them until they have a product that use their battery which is in mass production. Otherwise Chinese battery makers like CATL and BYD will continue to dominate the segment.

Substantial-Lawyer91

The reason is because Tesla already *has* performed. It went from an unprofitable newcomer in an unborn industry trying to compete against legacy companies that had decades and decades of experience and customer loyalty. And Tesla won. They are still one of only two car companies to be able to produce a profitable EV (the other one being BYD) and have margins and debt levels far superior to *anyone* else in the industry. By critiquing Tesla now you are not critiquing Amazon in 2000, you’re critiquing Amazon in 2014 after they’ve already proven themselves.

Fwellimort

Then every company dependent on TSMC (and TSMC) should crash. And every company dependent on China for growth story should crash (Apple, etc). Rationally, it makes no sense why that risk isn't factored to some stocks and a lot to other stocks. It's completely ignored with stocks like BYD too.

AluminiumCaffeine

Hong Kong had a great day last night, BYD pushing back up, I think longer term if Elon is giving up on cheaper normal car models and really going all in or close to on robottaxi byd is in a better of spot losing their main international competitor and continuing to focus on low price phevs/bevs

SuddenlySilva

Here's why I'm bullish on Tesla- EVs are better cars all around and Tesla is the reason we know that. Everybody with a 20 mile commute and a home where they can install a charger would be better off if they bought one tomorrow. BYD is the only real competition. The US legacy carmakers are not really trying, they are sticking their toe in the water and using EVs to leverage CAFE standards. EVs are terrible for their business model of fleecing customers in the service department. If Biden wins the in 2024, EV demand and incentives will increase dramatically. We probably won't hit the 2035 goals but the world will be a different place in 10 years. The legacy carmakers will have a hard time making money on EVs for a few more years. Every EV Tesla sells is an EV tesla sells- with all the margin. Every EV Ford sells is an ICE car they didn't sell so as EV penetration spread Teslas revenue will increase faster even if Elon is a fascist. The media says the stock rose because of the promise of cheap Teslas. But the financial press doesn't know shit about anything. I think it went up because investors believe what I believe about the future and were relieved that Elon had something positive to say.

judgefriendlyhand

Elon will be working on a BYD assembly line by July 17

Trucktrailercarguy

Ummm I'm Canadian so I venture all time outside of The U.S. Nothing you have said has made me change my mind. BYD has improved their product! Big deal so has everyone else. BYD also has the benefit of a closed communist market. Intel makes cpus not gpu's that's why they are losing the lead. You are literally looking at the numbers of a country that produces the most cars period. China produces more cars in one month than Canada buys all year. So of course their numbers are going to be inflated compared to anyone else. Secondly the quality control and manufacturing standards of that country is literally awfull. Give it some time and all will be revealed.

WonderfulMotor4308

TSLA bulls realizing that 1) no one wants a car that depreciates 80% in 4 years. 2) The plan to introduce cheaper cars means current models have even worse re-sale and after-sales. 3) Chinese EV (BYD, Nio even freaking Huawei) means a race to the fuckin bottom in search for margins. TL:DR; TSLA bul fuk

Most-Negotiation-60

Many things contradictory in your post. For one, past net income doesn't matter, only future net income does, and China has started a price war with Tesla which Tesla simply cannot win outside of America. Layoffs, specifically what Tesla did with regards to factory workers is bad, because car production has flat costs and only is profitable with economies of scale. In addition, Tesla had 5.5% margins last quarter and this likely only gets worse as they are going to have to continue lowering their car prices to get sales. Total company net income divided by cars delivered is down to $3000 the lowest since 2020, and is not likely to get better with the competition from China, running factories under capacity, loss of preferential tax treatment, etc. Tech companies can produce the same with less resources because their margins are so high, and do not require massive capex spending. Tesla does not have that luxury. I know how bond rates affect the economy, and I expect them to be flat or even increase later this year. And on your last point, China is absolutely NOT in a recession, the reason Apple and Tesla are doing poorly in China is because native brands are simply outcompeting them. Apple is getting outcompeted by Vivo, Huawei. Tesla is getting outcompeted by the massive amounts of EV companies, most notably BYD. BYD still sold more cars YoY Q1 2024 in China, whereas Tesla had a decrease YoY Q1 2024 in China.

mscotch2020

This. Between the crap Tesla and BYD, Tesla is millions times better Tax BYD into oblivion

iLoveFemNutsAndAss

Oh lord. The same BYD with something like a 40% drop in sales from 2023 Q4 to 2024 Q1? Without looking at your profile, I bet I can find plenty of Elon hate. There is no reason to think BYD is outperforming Tesla in any metric outside of raw sales numbers (the same metric that dropped 40%). I could go on, but I’m sure you won’t be convinced. The market is irrational. Everything I’m saying is false. The markets are rigged and you guys have it all figured out. My bad.

Spardasquad2020

For now. More and more people in europe complain that all limitations on import from china are done to save failing germany manufacturers. No way that they can do their no ICE by 20xx without cheap chineese BYD cars

Spardasquad2020

Tesla is a dead company right now. Their profits dropped all the way down to 5%. Chineese BYD takes over asia and europe. In US u got other automakers joining electric train. Hyundai is notorious thief of tesla customers woth its ioniq platform. U need to be seriously regarded if u think that Tesla will be good buy at 120$. It will tank one way or another. Year ago dead cay bounce pushed it from 100$ all the way to 300$. Wgats the price now?? U really have higher chances on Nvidia hitting 2k$ before tesla moons😅

After-right

KIA EV5 is a really good car? Do you even own a car? I don't think anyone who knows anything about cars would bring up shit like KIA EV5 and BYD Seal

van-redditor

In the EU markets, BYD doubles the price over what they cost in China.

Swamivik

Thank you, this is the main reason why BYD is so cheap. They used to be a battery manufacturer. Their progress in battery tech is advancing so rapidly. It is only now Tesla is trying to bring battery in-house, but they should have done that ages ago.

Swamivik

Apple didn't lose market share. They absolutely dominated in China until this quarter. The EV market has grown in China. Tesla is selling less cars in China. BYD is selling more. It is not just their market share is shrink but they are actually selling less cars in a growing market. That is why their earnings report was so horrible. The next one, you will be worse and you will see it is not a blip. They are in terminal decline.

self-assembled

How on earth can you claim BYD cars are better designed? Have you seen extensive reviews? Reliability over years? We know literally nothing about these cars, except that they copied a lot of tesla features and design cues and are made significantly of plastic and have too many electronics, and no repair centers outside China.

frogchris

Byd was making cars way before Tesla opened up their factory there lol. Everyone was laughing at BYD in 2008/2009. Even Musk himself laughed at their cars in an interview. They played it smart and used their knowledge on batteries to make buses, hybrids, then cheap small evs. Now BYD is up 50x since then. They are dominating the ev market. They are beating Tesla, and their cars are better quality at at much lower price. But yea keep telling yourself that all China does is steal when they clearly had a better strategy. Warren buffet and Charlie munger realized this and made huge returns.

senseven

[Volume is everything](https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/) in the car industry. Toyota sells 4x more all around. On the electric side; Tesla needs to counter [BYD](https://www.statista.com/statistics/960121/sales-of-all-electric-vehicles-worldwide-by-model/)s push and the upcoming EVs from german manufacturers. They need a model in the mid range to attack BYD and Toyota.

shantired

The gigapress company, supposedly from Italy, is actually owned by a Chinese entity. BYD is a battery supplier (mainly) like CATL. As an engineering director, I’ve been using li ion batteries for at least 20 years which were sourced from China rather than Japan when Sony batteries started catching fire (anyone not born yesterday will remember those incidents). The bottom line is that if you want top quality batteries today, you source them from China. From a safety perspective, their lower density lithium phosphate batteries are actually a game changer (and Tesla uses them as well). And now, they (BYD) are working on sodium batteries which will NOT require blood minerals anymore. And, let’s face it: EV’s are basically batteries on wheels (although some people claim they’re computers on wheels). If you focus on “batteries on wheels”, you get affordable electric cars (like BYD’s Sewgull). Unfortunately, Tesla is focusing on the “computer on wheels” idea and that’s not what the market needs. Most people use the computer that they carry (cell phones) in cars for navigation and music and it’s a matter of time before manufacturers link up the car’s parameters from the CAN bus to display things like tire pressure, climate settings etc on to the phone.

Jaded_Masterpiece_11

It's BYD who is looking like the dominant player in the EV space not Tesla. Tesla is only pumping because of speculation from manic investors. It's the same way why Wework pumped. Tesla is masquerading as a tech company to lure those speculators. The same way Wework did it in 2020. And it will end the same way.

siamsuper

Chinese here. I'm not sure Tesla's Brand Image is "destroyed", diluted is a better term. I still know people who'd buy an Tesla. But Tesla is nothing special anymore. One electric car company among others. And the brand is nothing special either. Why buy a Tesla if you could get BYD, Nio, Porsche, VW? Some simply prefer Chinese cars (due to price, better localization or patriotic reasons). Those who want a luxury foreign car can simply go for Porsche or Mercedes. What niche does Tesla fill? I live in Europe and drive a Tesla, but honestly I don't see how in todays marketTesla has a superior product. It's good, but others are good too. I think my next car might very likely not be a Tesla.

Swamivik

If you position your car as upmarket, you destroyed brand image by lowering your prices. BYD was never a status brand.

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

shit, I wasn't aware. must have been the lieutenants. looks like they still own \~8% of the H shares in BYD though. [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-sells-byd-shares-51-061328301.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-sells-byd-shares-51-061328301.html)

zitrored

Correct. There is a concerted effort in China to destroy tesla brand image and make it look like consumers simply prefer BYD. It’s over for Tesla in China. They had a nice run.

buy2hodl

Another day, another lies. Today there are affordable EV-s from BYD

buy2hodl

Oh, btw BYD has a cheap model TODAY: cost 9000$, recharge from 20-100% in 30 min with 300km range. BYD Seagull, just google it. All I hear is bla-bla from Elon to prop up the share price

ricardo_sousa11

Theres a difference if you live in the US and use a Tesla and need parts for a Tesla, even though they come from china. If you own a BYD in USA, and BYD is in china with no infrastructure in the USA, it is only obvious repairs and parts will take much much longr.

Tomz994

If they want to compete in other markets and they want to sell more is a necessity. Tesla is almost luxury in a lot of countries and with BYD and Xiaomi cars is gonna be tough

Swamivik

In the short term, maybe due to price war. With any new markets, there will be a lot of players, but within say 5 years, there will be a consolidation, and only a couple will be left. There will be lots of EVs going bankrupt left right and center. 'There can only be one' as Highlander says. Or a few more precisely. The question is who to bet on and which one will be left? EV is a growing market, and winners take all. My bet is on BYD. They are the only vertically integrated EV and was a battery manufacturer before. Tesla is only trying to bring battery in-house now to be able to compete with BYD on price. At the moment, BYD had the foresight to do share buyback for this price war, knowing the price war will downgrade their financials and why their share prices is pretty stable. The other company I think would do well is Xiaomi. They have a lot of goodwill due to their products being known for their quality for their price. Their SU7 is way oversubscribed because Chinese consumers trust the company, but how good their car is do not know until it comes out. If I have to bet, it will be really good. They are also a massive company that is not likely to go bankrupt unlike say Nio and Xpeng, and why their shares have gone up since the announcement. However, the only thing I will say is the price of their products is priced really low so may not translate to profit and share price.

slbaaron

BYD isn’t in US at all. US and China is more than your standard nation to nation financial relationship with stable and competitive market based tariffs setting since a while back have you checked news at all? Why don’t you check the numbers. China cars tariffs are at 27.5% Which other country you mentioned has a 25% tariff wtf? In fact almost all other countries have a flat rate of 2.5%. That’s more than 10x difference. Try to sound more clueless. I doubt you can.

Suitable-Roof2405

Will BYD enter US market this year or within 2 years?

m0nk_3y_gw

> Old old news. They have been dumping for a year+ > > (url removed because it is blocked here, but you can find it in my comment history) > > Berkshire Hathaway reduced its stake in Chinese electric vehicle maker BYD last week for the 11th time in less than a year. > > The share sale came just days before Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger said they don't want to compete with Elon Musk. > > Berkshire sold nearly 2 million shares and now owns just under 10% of BYD, which rivals Tesla as the world's largest EV manufacturer. Berkshire's current BYD stake is worth just over $3 billion.

Tocharian

Xiaomi cars are a meme at this point in time, but, BYD cars are not. Tesla will get decimated on the non-NA car market to Chinese competitors in 5 years tops. I don't really see how they can compete and the stock is grossly overvalued at this point.

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

berkshire's BYD shares are going to print so hard in the future.

Lopsided_Quarter_931

XIoami SU7 for example or the BYD Seal. Xiaomi just sold 100,000 of them and they are Model 3 sized and start at $30,000. The Seal cost 20% less than the Model 3 in open markets.

m0nk_3y_gw

Which Toyota patents are Rivian, Lucid, BYD, Tesla, Ford, paying to use?

glowy_keyboard

You misspelled BYD

f00dl3

The problem with EVs is BYD. BYD has an EV that costs less than $10,000 USD. If BYD EVs enter the US market, Tesla and many other EV makers charging minimum $25k for an EV will be basically obsolete. Regardless of quality. Seriously, if you can buy an EV for 10k, even if it lasts only 3-5 years, it's still net cheaper than most used cars non-EVs. Biden and Trump want tariffs, but at the same time, in weird ways, the EV industry needs this - flooding of the market with cheap EVs to make it more affordable to the consumer.

Deep-Complex-5328

BYD wouldn't sell without tarrifs

Racxie

“BYD sells less EVs than Tesla” - you. That’s what I corrected you on. BYD did not sell less EVs than Teslas in Q4 2023. I also counterbalanced it with the whole year, but made a note of future impact. But hey, I don’t blame you for your poor reading comprehension considering you couldn’t even get the numbers right even though I had just given them to you.

Racxie

You said BYD sells less EVs than Tesla. I pointed out that BYD sold more EVs than Tesla in Q4 2023, and although Tesla sold more EVs than BYD did in the whole year the gap has narrowed compared to the previous year. As in BYD is catching up if you didn’t understand that bit. So yes Tesla may still be the leader in the EV space overall, but it wasn’t in the last quarter and is starting to falter so don’t expect that to be the case forever.

R-E-L-O-A-D-I-N-G

You entered a conversation on EV leadership. You bring up that BYD sold more cars than Tesla in Q4; which so did almost every other automotive manufacturer. However, Tesla out sold BYD by more than 20% in 2023. Which goes back to my point. Who is the EV leader if it isn’t Tesla?

R-E-L-O-A-D-I-N-G

Tesla outsold BYD by 300K EVs in 2023. Now, please tell me who is the EV leader 🤣

Racxie

Why are you bring Ford and GM into this when you were talking about BYD and EVs? Not to mention that BYD **are** EVs and they sold more than Tesla in Q3 and have shortened the gap over the last couple of years.

Racxie

BYD sold more cars than Tesla in [Q4 2023](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/02/cars/china-byd-ev-sales-increase-tesla-intl-hnk). Tesla still beat it over the whole year, but only by roughly 230k vehicles which was an even smaller gap than in 2022 at 440k vehicles.

RempitMatiKatak

Also Tesla cannot compete on the global market when byd is pumping <$10k cars. Got low can Tesla sell? Also the existing model 3 is garbage compared to atto 3 and atto 3 is even cheaper than model 3 by a whole lot... They can't even compete when Tesla's higher tier cars are shittier than BYD's lower spec cars, how are they going to compete at the lower tier cars category? Are Tesla's lower tier cars are going to be competing against bicycles?

R-E-L-O-A-D-I-N-G

BYD sells less EVs than Tesla. How are they a leader?

brainfreeze3

BYD

_hiddenscout

Legacy is doing well though. $GM beat and raised today. I think the issue with TSLA is a few things, not really rates as much. One, is they banked on a lot of growth in China. However, basically BYD is eating their lunch. The problem is that for a lot of consumers, EV's are going to be a race to the bottom in most cases. Another issue is with Elon himself. I mean I've seen people put bumper stickers on their car around buying it before Elon went crazy. In the auto space, ICE and Hybrid are doing really well. There are some reasons for that, but a big one is still infrastructure. We haven't built enough chargers. Then there is still the question around used pricing. Like when buying a car, you know your purchase will depreciate in value. However, when new prices keep getting cut, that means that used will get cut as well. I think right now, if you bought a TSLA last year, it's now down 30% in terms of value of your car. That's pretty bad.

LightBeerIsForGirls

Have you guys ever driven a BYD? They’re fucking shite

Minute_Hurry4580

It’s cause BYD is coming into Texas and is going to try to undercut the EV market by outsourcing all of their dogshit cars and sell them for 4 dogecoin and Tesla has to do something about it before they get fucked in the ass. I don’t think quality is a factor anymore since BYD is flying in.

johndsmits

biznews justifying PR saying a "lower cost model" with a bunch of vague stuff is bullish. If it's a lower cost model, just announce the dev effort for a model 2, done, direct. Instead it's vague enough that the lower cost model is a model 3- that's $1.5k less than the lowest priced model 3 today, which still varies. Was looking for news on how they plan to tackle the BYD onslaught...no dice.

rioferd888

BYD can't enter the US markets due to tariffs. They are targeting Europe first and foremost.

him_dunkin

I think Toyota is a better pick. America was too aggressive on EV’s but hybrids are a way better alternative until we build better charging infrastructure but a play for EVs would be BYD company. They have electric commercial vehicles that I feel will take off in the next 5-10 years

openthespread

They don’t really make any money at 20k those cars have 800 of profit in each unit so even just the logistics would kill it without raising the price. Realistically the BYD EV cars are a warren Buffett illusion. The whole range including ICE and hybrid outsold Tsla last Q but in terms of pure EV they fell significantly under Tsla even domestically.

AVALANCHE_CHUTES

> technology is stronger What tech is stronger? Tesla is more efficient, quicker to charge, better handling/drivetrain, has access to the super charger network, has actual self driving capabilities. Am I missing something? The only leg up BYD has is a cost advantage in certain markets.

koreanwizard

This sub is filled with people who have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about ever. 1. The competitive advantage that BYD holds seizes to exist when producing vehicles on foreign soil. BYDs biggest advantage is $1.70 per hour labour, and cheap parts and logistics. You lose that, and you’re no better off than any legacy auto manufacturer, there is no secret Chinese sauce. 2. If BYD produces cars in Mexico to sell them to the US, its competing with domestic manufacturers who are doing the same, making cars isn’t magic, they’ll likely have to either take a huge hit to profit in order to gain market share, or increase their prices to retain profitability. 3. If the Chinese government helps subsidize losses to help them capture US market share and BYD Mexico cars start to take off, the US will implement a Tariff specifically targeting Chinese auto. Trump has already threatened to do this, it’s why the tariffs exist in the first place, and the auto lobby is insanely powerful. Countries where auto manufacturing makes up a large part of their economy have a huge interest in protecting that sector. It’s why Aussies drive Chinese cars and we don’t. The US won’t sit on its hands and allow China to displace US auto, they won’t even let US auto fail under the weight of its own incompetence.

kmosiman

Exactly. I'm sure that the powers that be might try for a special BYD carve out as a way to block them, but if they establish themselves in Mexico and other countries first then they can still pivot later.

gnocchicotti

All we have to go off is BYD claiming they're built for Mexico and Latin America market, which actually makes sense. US and European brands don't compete in the price brackets they need. Also they claim that the factory location in central Mexico is indicative of the end market. US manufacturers tend to build in northern Mexico which is convenient for US deliveries and supply chain, but not Mexico/SA. In this environment, if they announced an intention of a US sales push, there would just incur more tariffs/import ban anyway, which could become permanent. Better for them to let the trade tensions cool down.

Rand-Seagull96734

In the steady state 10 years from now, EV makers would largely be good automakers with low margins, just like the ICE world. The question is whether some of these EV makers, and others, would have created some well adopted "platforms" for others. The Chinese (CATL, BYD) have a huge lead on LFP battery packs, Tesla has a huge jump on the charging network, who will have a differentiated brand in mid and high tiers (not clear yet, Rivian has ingredients), driver assist tech (not clear, robotaxis is hyped but in limited cases, Waymo and Tesla have a chance), etc. The larger renewables market should be played the same way for growth opportunities: not the utilities or installers, but platform makers: solar modules like Solaredge, micro inverter makers like Enphase, wind tech like GE Vernova, etc.

Silent-Hyena9442

Disagree frankly this dolphin mini car looks exactly like the GM bolt ev ($26,500) and that car isn’t exactly flying off the shelves. Also once BYD comes to America they have to add American safety features which would add a couple brand. I think the BYD car would sell but I fail to see the takeover that people are suggesting when similar priced cars are not selling like hotcakes

TheRarePondDolphin

VW ID2 would be much better than a BYD

kmosiman

Yes, but unless I am missing something Mexico falls under the USMCA trade agreement. Now BYD may not want to certify those vehicles for US sales (yet) but if they are building a factory in Mexico then there's no reason to think that they won't eventually branch into US sales.

JJJonReddit

Looking good for BYD, which Berk has a lot of exposure to.

Madison464

BYD is planning to build cars in Mexico to import into the US to avoid China ban. Elon knows he can't compete with their $20K EV, that's why he's scrapping the Model 2 and pushing TSLA to go for moonshot FSD. FSD that uses the most minimal and cheapest hardware possible. Meanwhile, Google's FSD robotaxis have just clocked in over 7 million miles.

Samjabr

Agree in a large part - but even the EU is in panic mode right now. One of the few industries in the EU that doesn't suck is their automotive one - especially Germany and italy (heavy union presence) - They will not allow Chinese cars to decimate their industry. [Exclusive: EU investigators to inspect China's BYD, Geely and SAIC in EV probe - source | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-investigators-inspect-chinas-byd-geely-saic-ev-probe-source-2024-01-12/#:~:text=The%20probe%2C%20launched%20in%20October,would%20carry%20out%20the%20visits.)

lgx

We can force BYD to sell their US branch to a US company because of national security. Problem solved!

ughthat

Question is how much the US will matter if BYD starts eating Tesla’s lunch in the other major markets.