FSD

ckm_endo

You have VW I think...and you are correct in that it is definitely buggy. But, give v12.3.x a shot and you'll become a believer in FSD.

ckm_endo

What version of FSD are you running?

BeKindToOthersOK

I was getting a demonstration of FSD from a friend of mine. He had to intervene to prevent it from running over a kid in a confusing crosswalk situation. 🤷‍♂️

jobitus

They've spent more than that on RD in the 5 years after Musk said Tesla FSD could take you from a parking lot in NY to a parking lot in California. It still can't get across just one parking lot sometimes.

BongHitsForLisaSu

I’m assuming Elon surprise trip to China for FSD. Not sure if Cathie Woods bullish outlook this weekend has as much weight as it did a few years ago.

RagingBearBull

China is gonna ban TSLA FSD. This is because the US banned tick-tock and the Chinese dont want the Capitalism to collect the data.

crazyyimmy

China EV makers announced FSD in most major cities on Friday at the China Auto Show Musk shows up in China unannounced today with the intent to get Tesla FSD released in China Probably the best thing he's done for Tesla in 2 years

jobitus

What do you mean, Elon said FSD would be ready next year... in 2017.

Interesting_Low_8439

Are you suggesting poor people get into more accidents? The best metric will be accidents/mile FSD versus accidents/mile no FSD

carsonthecarsinogen

It shouldn’t be called FSD even with BETA or (Supervised) attached. But it’s also the millionth time a company has stretched the truth. I still think the name should be changed due to the danger involved with the product. With that said, you literally have to ignore multiple warning screens and not read anything about the product in order to think it can drive fully. Very few people actually think it can drive fully and that you don’t need to pay attention at all. A huge majority of these cases have been due to people not paying attention when they knew they should have been

carsonthecarsinogen

Tesla wants the fastest way forward and idiots are making it difficult, should be the headline here. It’s a lose-lose if Tesla wants to continue scaling FSD for training. If you give back control and nag these idiot consumers they don’t use the product, but if you let them look at the trees and people while the car drives them around you get people dying. Tesla obviously needs to make changes because natural selection is still sad, but at the end of the day if people were smarter this wouldn’t be a problem.

TitusPullo4

Pretty much. Its certainly what Dustin Moskovitz was insinuating. Others are saying that the deferred revenue that they are realizing shouldn't be realised for FSD revenue as they havent delivered FSD to the customers - but I have no clue to what extent the realised deferred revenue is from FSD sales - and from what I've seen they make it relatively clear that FSD subscriptions are paying for access to the latest features and not full autonomous driving. Probably a nothing-burger - only tangible issue is with them using the name FSD for software that isn't yet FSD but if they make that clear before the sale its probably legal.

AvocadoPurees

He's in China and then what? I did lose on TSLA recently and salty but are you expecting him to sell FSD to China while it is being investigated in the US?

bdh2067

FSD in China is the secret American weapon to holding China back

eplugplay

Not with FSD and China news.

Minister_for_Magic

Cool. I’m sure your anecdote should be taken as fact above the public statements released by NHTSA recently about the massive safety issues with FSD.

Minister_for_Magic

Just like Tesla recognizing revenue on Autopilot/FSD while it’s still nowhere near delivering on the stated “finished state”

TitusPullo4

The bulk (60%) of recognized deferred revenue was from their energy sector. 40% was from vehicles. From what I've seen on their website - they sell an FSD subscription, but they also make it clear that full autonomous driving is not available yet and that you're paying for access to the latest features. It seems to be a monthly subscription that people can cancel anyway so I don't see where these supposed large prepayments for full autonomous driving exist in reality. Misleading or false advertising - maybe, but I personally wouldn't bet on a successful lawsuit. Fraudulent recording of revenue - not seeing it.

Visual-Cranberry1210

Haha no. I have too often sold positions based on weekly or monthly movements. Will hold this one for 3-4 months. Want to see what happens at equity dilution and the next delivery report on July 1. FSD won't save them from another negative FCF earnings. https://preview.redd.it/i1e5vggwkaxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=773812e2a6e93fae6404afef60a67924c66be612

jglover82

FSD is just getting started LOL. Nobody gives a shit about car sales anymore

philomatic

It’s pretty simple. Did Tesla deliver FSD in 2022? Because they started recognizing revenue from FSD in 2022, so if you don’t consider what they delivered as FSD, it is very similar to Enron. And if they are never able to deliver on their original promise of FSD that they collected money for, they are in big trouble.

Massivehelpedneeded

TSLA bears R FUKED. Daddy Musk is in China selling FSD while your gey bears are at college getting arrested for antisemitism. LOL LOSERS. 

Fun_Entrepreneur_254

Imho if you’re in the driver seat you’re responsible. We won’t have FSD because crybabies worried about liability. I hate how everything has red tape that doesn’t actually save anyone’s lives. ‘Merica

seviay

If you assume $20b of profit from FSD per year (\~17M cars at $1200/year), at a 25x multiple, that part of the business would be valued at a $500b market cap, and that would just be one line of business. I'm not a Musk fanboy, nor am I a Cathie Wood simp, but I don't think it's unreasonable to estimate something like these numbers. I don't think they're going to get to 200-300M cars; if someone absolutely believed this were the case, I don't know why they would own anything other than Tesla, because those numbers definitely would be ridiculous. I'm going to caveat all of this by saying I took some cough medicine earlier, so my numbers might be wrong, but I think they're fair and accurate, even if they're estimations.

cyclemonster

> Except Moskovitz is insinuating that “deferred revenue” is forecast or “imagined” revenue and is insinuating that realising that deferred revenue in any period is deciding to realise a portion of expected future sales. > In reality, deferred revenue is the opposite - the sale has already been made and the cash has already been received, but it’s not able to be recorded or realised as revenue until a later period (when the services are provided) due to accounting rules > In this case, Tesla has realised a portion (about 11%) of their total deferred revenue as revenue in the first quarter - which seems so usual as to be mundane. Charging $10k or more for a feature that you _can't ever deliver_ is straightforward fraud, though, no matter the rate at which you realize the revenues. He's been promising that FSD is [just-about-ready for like ten years now](https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-promises-full-self-driving-next-year-for-th-1848432496). Eventually a customer or a regulator is going to lose patience with that and sue. They've sold more than 5 million cars, most of which have had FSD, and five million times ten thousand is fifty billion(!). They cannot afford to refund that money if they are ever ordered to.

cyclemonster

TSLA can easily prove this in court using FSD mileage as a metric. The functionality of FSD is *not* determined by how much data it has been trained on. For example, if there are situations that Teslas will never be able to handle because they only have HD cameras and not LIDAR sensors, then obviously more miles will not solve that deficiency. If the new driven miles do not involve any novel situations, then they can't teach the AI anything about how to handle such situations when they come up. That is a relatively useless metric that they like to report because it always goes up, whereas if they reported a stat like "FSD feature-completeness" instead, it might look stalled.

BillysCoinShop

FSD isn’t possible with stationary cameras. You need scanning IR and honestly waves as well. I was an engineer at MSFT for 15 years working on computer vision. My buddies and I often laughed at CEOs claiming FSD. It’s doable if you add $50k worth of equipment to the top of the car, not $500 worth of cellphone cameras.

ShadowLiberal

No that's not why it's deferred revenue. It's because they need to deliver the FSD functionality to recognize the revenue. Tesla has been able to recognize some of it as revenue overtime as they introduced new FSD functionality like auto-summon. And Tesla themselves doesn't get to pick and choose how much of that deferred revenue to recognize. It's their third party auditing firm who decides.

ShadowLiberal

> It looks like Tesla is arguing that functionality related to FSD is being delivered… the public and a government authority may disagree with that FYI, Tesla DOES NOT decide if they delivered enough functionality to recognize the revenue as profits/etc. That's decided by their third party accountant how much they can recognize. This has happened before when Tesla introduced new functionality, such as auto-summon.

gizamo

My wife drives a Tesla. FSD is the joke, mate. It's been a lie for nearly a decade.

Educated_Clownshow

It’s been a decade of FSD being dysfunctional, I honesty don’t think we can even call them a tech company anymore. That whole “Tesla isn’t a car manufacturer” thing, that’s aging well.

bhauertso

Got a free FSD transfer on the last purchase, so I didn't need to repay for it. They really should make it permanently transferable. In the meantime, you'll keep embarrassing yourself with confusion of terminology.

ComprehensiveSwan698

Musks best chance at truly autonomous FSD is if Daddy Huang makes the greatest semiconductor on earth. AGI will be a game changer for autonomous transportation

Adigr0709

I’m wondering who’s so stupid to pay thousands of dollars for FSD

hydro22k

FSD revenue is recorded as unrealized income

Ill_Try1620

FSD

Own_Drama_3083

Walking robots will be here sooner than not. They can move slow to be safe and make some mistakes as long as they can correct themselves. FSD can’t make mistakes and needs react in 1/10th of a second.

Saragon4005

I mean Tesla would have to start selling FSD to capitalize on that. Which would probably kill the company or at least severely cut it's value. Suddenly Tesla isn't a car company but a supplier and they only sell an add on. The only things going for Tesla today are the charger network and the software. They already opened up the charger network so if they start selling the software suddenly everyone can take the parts which make Tesla cars good and just combine that with the actual cars they build better. Cuz Tesla's are obviously cheap construction and really not the best cars.

Hungryman3459

FSD means my car is picking me up from the pub drunk as a skunk.  Until that’s happening, FSD does not exist. 

Ill_Try1620

I joined X so I could watch TSLA FSD videos

National-Belt5893

What people like Cathy and Elon overestimate is the long term value of autonomous driving because right now it seems cool and futuristic. Same as adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist would have seemed 30 years ago. Now those things are commonplace and standard in vehicles. Self driving will become the same way and will be totally commoditized. A race to the bottom on pricing it will occur if companies are going to try and sell it as a service. In 10 years, no one is going to be paying $12,000 or whatever it is for FSD capability in their car once every car company has it figured out.

daynighttrade

>if they're ever busted on their fraudulent FSD claims, having to refund That's why FElon keeps on saying FSD it's coming next year

Nice-Let8339

Really tracks with my feelings. How they are not deceased for literally hiding how damaging FSD testing has been is beyond me. Powerful people are invested in the manipulation i guess. But yeah unless facebook guy has a smoking gun it is all speculation. 

Investiv

You act like they just announced they're working on FSD, robots, energy storage, etc. They've been working on all of these for years, even when car sales were growing. Speaking of car sales, they still have the best selling car model in the world, and a virtual monopoly on EVs in the West. With more affordable models in the works, their market share will only grow as more buyers shift to EVs worldwide and in the U.S. So their valuation could be justified on EV sales alone in several years, but it doesn't have to be because they have multiple alternate revenue streams that are either already producing results or will in the near future.

wannaknowmyname

How so? It's full of untruths. Stock price has been overinflated but also it's a smart long term investment? Their decline in vehicle sales was china, not US, which makes that okay? (I can't find any source besides blaming china on lack of production- not lack of sales). Isn't that just indicative of other EVs gaining market share? FSD isn't close to performing how expected, regardless of firmware updates

wayfarer8888

That decision was not smart, LIDAR isn't all that expensive that this would make a huge difference. You need maximum safety first for FSD before you can think about removing sensors. Heck, he could be much further with FSD if they had the LIDAR data.

kinglittlenc

I think it's more what are the purposed features of FSD and what have they delivered on. In a lot of accounting situations you can do a percent of work complete to recognize revenue. Mostly used in construction though. But if they have been updating feature on FSD it's not unheard of to claim a larger percentage is complete

Torczyner

Well the article was discussing Auto Pilot which is separate from FSD BTW. I felt it relevant to stay on the correct software being criticized. Since you're being pedantic, Auto Pilot by definition is automatic Pilot. Where in that does having a Pilot sound like a requirement?

Opaque_Cypher

Tesla’s position is that some of the functionality of FSD has been delivered and therefore they recognize the revenue associated with the component(s) that have been delivered, and they defer the revenue of the component(s) that have not been delivered. Since the ‘F’ in FSD stands for Full and since the system is not currently capable of full self driving, I personally don’t think their revenue. recognition policies accurately represent the amount of net income earned, but Tesla and their auditors don’t really care what I think. Additionally for all I know the FSD contract says something like ‘*hey this system doesn’t actually work right now and -guess what- it might never work - but it does some things and no matter what happens you will never ever get any of your money back*’. Bury something like that on page 328 of 500 in a software license that nobody ever reads and your auditors will think you’re golden.

Mr-R--California

Note 2 sig accounting policies, rev rec Revenue related to FSD capability features is recognized when functionality is delivered to the customer and their ongoing maintenance is recognized over time. They have $3.5b in deferred revenue at the end of 2021 primarily related to FSD They anticipate recognizing approx $926m of that in 2024

ArcticRiot

Because the revenue becomes a liability if a lawsuit refunds customers if FSD doesn’t fulfill its claims

luv2block

While this is true, starting a price war is a calculated move. I don't think he just did it without serious consideration for the consequences. While it will create a lot of pain for Tesla, it will probably bankrupt Ford and GM (this whole "people want hybrid" crap is probably both a narrative planted in the media and also a temporary issue due to lack of charging resources). Tesla on the other hand will be quite difficult to bankrupt. They have a good product. Their biggest risk is going to be a class action lawsuit over FSD or if the FSD is found to be unsafe and they are told to remove it (turn it off) from all their cars.

Ysmenir

You heard wrong. While FSD does turn of before a crash, the purpose is not to blame the driver. He is to blame anyway because he agreed to all the "I will watch the road and supervise my vehicle" Clauses that you have to accept like 4 times BEFORE you can even enable FSD. And FSD doesn't drive aggressively. Everybody who's even been in a Tesla with FSD enabled will tell you it drives like a granny. And it doesn't under steer a corner with a speed that you couldn't catch anymore. If you see a still standing vehicle on the highway you may be better taking over for FSD instead of waiting and look how it will handle it. Most people are even pissed that FSD isn't aggressive enough. (a sentiment I do NOT share) FSD turns off because the "normal" stuff like emergency brake etc. take over.

MartinThe3rd

>Mercedes drive pilot can only operate in highways whereas Tesla fsd will work on both highways & city streets Understatement of the century right here. Mercedes only operates on parts of very specific highways. Meanwhile, there was a video of a very old version of Tesla FSD turned on in Ukraine, and it kinda worked. This gives credibility to Elon's claim that FSD is restrained mostly for regulatory reasons and that the system would work anywhere, but LHD countries would take some retraining.

cyclemonster

They charge like ten thousand dollars for a feature that doesn't yet work, and in fact might never work. They book some of the revenue now, and the rest goes on their books as a liability until they can deliver the feature. I didn't see the specifics, but the guy's probably saying that the car loses money without the FSD sale, and that if they're ever busted on their fraudulent FSD claims, having to refund the cost of it will bankrupt them.

lostboy005

They had first mover advantage and that has been significantly reduced as a result of dumb shit like the robotruck or whatever. Had they followed thru on the affordable EV things would look different. Now they’re forced to go all in on FSD and that’s a huge gamble

Soggy-Maintenance

I've heard of FSD self shutting down in the split moment before a crash, leaving the driver to blame. Actually the driver is always to blame because FSD isn't truly FSD. The thing about FSD that I find unreasonable is that the driver is still supposed to maintain the car. But anyone who has under turned a tight curve knows that by the time you know you're in trouble, it's too late. By the time the driver has to take the wheel, depending on the speed and what's happening, it may be too late to correct for the car's imminent crash.

Ok-ChildHooOd

Aunt Woody seems to have missed the reports of Tesla losing top engineers left and right, just like how their executive team is leaving. She also doesn't seem to follow actual tech development as Dojo, FSD, and Optimus are non-existent in their respective industries.

meltbox

Elons been scamming the robo taxi line since like 2017 or something. He definitely mentioned it no later than 2019. It was a way to justify the price of FSD and Teslas. He said that you’d be able to make like $30k/year by having your Tesla be a robotaxi when you aren’t using it.

meltbox

https://youtu.be/2DOd4RLNeT4 Based on some napkin math of what we do know FSD appears to be about 10 times more likely to kill you than driving yourself.

tattarrattattat

The counter argument to make is that FSD is a pipe dream and TSLA will need to refund customers. They have missed deadlines by years and overstated performance and continue to set expectations that are bound to be false. It’s a fraudulent product and bound to unwind those earnings.

csiz

The cash paid by customers for FSD is in Tesla's bank already. This debate is what fraction of that cash they received can be written down as revenue and what fraction is not. Because FSD is still a beta product, they effectively incur a liability with each purchase. The risk is they have to refund everyone if they ever claim that FSD is impossible to solve, that's why the revenue isn't fully recognized from an accounting perspective.

MisterMoogle03

Am I an idiot for seeing some potential truth in here? Would AI incorporated with FSD decades down the line using all the data the company collects not be feasible? Or just using the info and infrastructure to partner with / acquire some other AI company to expand the uses of its tech?

trickup

It’s not even clear their camera approach that they are training the entire FSD on will even win out. Musk ruled out LIDAR but its difficult to see a path to full level 5 autonomous driving.

Hortos

People only worry about tiny percentage of crashes and ignore the fact there are millions of people driving millions of miles crash free on Autopilot and FSD all the time and that Tesla’s value is they’re sitting on millions upon millions of miles of training data.

2CommaNoob

Don’t feel bad; we all get scammed once our lifetime. Just don’t pay FSD next time and you’ll feel better

Flaky-Wing2205

You're either autistic assuming everyone knows what FSD is (full self driving), or a complete moron who can't articulate to others why they should hold your bags. Lost all interest before I could understand. P.S. (post script) Include definitions of acronyms so your audience can understand.

ryan178us

FSD "Fool Self Driving", wait until Elon caught in jail from misleading customers about self driving ...

JeromePowell42069

Elon hasn’t even solved full FSD perfectly and suddenly he will be the pre-eminent leader of AI. Boomer doing boomer things. She should just invest in Yeezy Porn

seviay

I assume she’s lumping FSD and Optimus under the “AI” umbrella to get those numbers, right?

Any_Yogurtcloset362

Rivian has large commercial vehicle deals which Tesla lacks. The AT&T deal is really encouraging. I’m not really bullish on Rivian but it has commercial streams which provide better support than consumer streams. So from a sustainability perspective they stand a better shot than Tesla in this way. These deals are more important than the rental deals as the rental companies generally flip inventory every 3 years and Teslas do have resale issues given battery conditioning challenges. This makes them less attractive for these large scale purchases. The commercial deals are fully capitalized purchases, longer use cycle, but lower barriers to just get refresh orders and continuing revenue since fleet consistency is advantageous (sticky vendor benefit). Hertz dumping Tesla confirms a market direction problem. They can make a great car but it doesn’t mean the market wants it. As irrational it is, EV range fear is a real problem and winters in the north don’t help change the market opinion. The Model 2 could potentially confirm it’s not a price issue and more of a usability issue for people which would be devastating. Given how they are reusing as much as they can for the Model 2, this has to be part of the hedge - why waste time really building something that ultimately won’t sell. FSD as a feature isn’t really part of the purchase conversation that will make or break a sale for most people. Consumers are still worried it won’t make it 2 blocks to get them to the grocery store still. So as far as stock impacting, it pales to actual delivery numbers and frankly probably won’t move the stock since only nerds and techies care. FSD technicalities are better debated on the Tesla subreddit. FSD as IP though is interesting and a question on the earnings call alluded to that when Elon did confirm they are in discussions to license out the technology with at least one carrier. The market appetite is really around hybrids. The market is concerned on range and hybrids still use gas which consumers are comfortable with. If the Model 2 sales are not extremely strong - and I mean significant blow out, Elon is better off changing the narrative by discontinuing producing cars in general. He can claim a win by saying he jump started an industry to develop a platform to then build FSD, charging infrastructure, battery technology, and autonomous technology. At the end of the day if you put a Prius and a Tesla in front of your average soccer mom, she’s probably taking the Prius. Gas isn’t going away and techies and environmentalists need to get over themselves and understand this reality. He can let the auto industry continue to make vehicles and just focus on licensing the technology and selling components for everything at a higher profit margin. Who cares if he sells cars for a profit, the stock will get hammered just from the lowering of the multiple as market size critical capacity will be reached if they stay as a car manufacturer. They are already trying to say they are not just a car company - they need this to justify the multiple and it also gives them a way out.

sld126a

That Elon stans can’t have reasonable discussions about the shortcomings of FSD. Twice.

SocialSuicideSquad

He doesn't follow ISO 26262, so L3-5 literally don't apply to FSD

smart_doge

“Full Liability” !!! I’m impressed!!! Even if Musk takes tesla to L5 autonomy but still doesn’t take Liability on the FSD, he can go kiss his own ass. 💋 A full liability is a big jump

sld126a

Thank you for this. Without Tesla addressing liability, FSD will never be *self* driving.

BlitzAuraX

They're talking about deferred revenue. TSLA's auditors and accounting team recommends a certain % of FSD that can be recognized as revenue and the other as deferred revenue. Deferred revenue is basically revenue they expect to generate when delivered. Because some FSD features are not yet ready but TSLA has made improvements, they felt that they could generate a higher % of deferred revenue as revenue. TSLA can easily prove this in court using FSD mileage as a metric. There is nothing here to talk about. This is just some random person who thinks he knows more than licensed auditors working for the biggest firm.

lostredditorlurking

So instead of "FSD by next year", Elon will say "AGI by next year" every time he speaks now.

kugino

trying a free trial of FSD...and it scraped the curb on a right turn at a stop sign. now my rim is rashed...seems like the easiest thing it should do with no issue, but I guess not. have not tried Mercedes level 3...all I'll say is true FSD is still far away, imo.

SocialSuicideSquad

FSD is $15k upfront lol

BlitzAuraX

There's so much negative TSLA sentiments here by people who are casual stock investors. I've been investing in TSLA since 2014. You guys are hilarious. TSLA is doing better financially today than they were in 2018 when they were on the verge of bankruptcy. Outside of last year, TSLA is doing better financially than ever. So the stock is down. And? Do you know how investing works? TSLA is a long-term play. Most of what they're developing is a 5-7 year timeline. It seems some of you are newer investors and don't realize how poor of an investment Apple was decades ago. Imagine if you sold Apple shares before iPhone was introduced. "But Elon tweets too much." Yes, it's annoying. But it doesn't have the impact many of you seem to believe. Most Americans don't know a single thing Elon tweets about. Outside of America, I guarantee you people don't even care about what Elon tweets out. Most of Tesla's decline in vehicle sales this Q was in China - not America. The problem with EV's isn't exclusive to Tesla. If it was, explain to me why LUCID, Rivian, and other EV makers are all down. EV is just a bad industry to invest in at this moment because ICE vehicles can be purchased for cheaper and when the economy is having turmoil, you're going to pick an ICE over an EV. It's also hilarious how ya'll talk about TSLA's stock performance but Ford is performing the same the past year and I've yet to hear anything about Ford here. We get it, TSLA generates the most views, clicks, and interest here. No one wants to talk about Jim Farley. They want to talk about Elon Musk. And that's 90% of what happens in every TSLA-related post on here. It turns into an Elon thread. None of ya'll will actually discuss what the company is actually doing. It's 2024. Elon has been tweeting stuff for years now. No one cares about it. TSLA is down because EV sentiment is down and TSLA was priced for growth. TSLA hasn't yet capitalized on FSD improvements (though v12 is a huge improvement) and their robotics/AI has yet to result in a significant revenue line. There's also a large % of people moving away from TSLA to invest in other AI companies such as Nvidia and AMD. You guys are confusing stock performance with financial results. TSLA has a bad Q1 but the company is still doing fine operationally. High interest rates made their vehicles super expensive to buy so TSLA has had to lower the prices to match the monthly payment so people could actually qualify. If all you guys want to just talk about is Elon, it's funny I don't see any of you saying the same when a SpaceX post is made... because ya'll got nothing to say. And FYI, SpaceX is valued at over $200 billion with no shortage of investors looking to purchase shares.

sld126a

This is the fundamental question. I’m an admitted Elon hater. But I’m fine w Tesla. Hope the FSD actually does what is promised some day. But in spite of automated driving reducing road deaths by half or more, there will still be deaths. Without an **actual** answer to who is responsible, financially and legally, it will never actually be full *self* driving. A healthy discussion around this point could move things forward. But Elon & Elon stans get in the way of that.

SocialSuicideSquad

The important part you Morons miss, Mercedes assumes full liability in mode 3. Musk can't even take responsibility for his own children, let alone FSD. L3 is difficult to do safely, Tesla ain't aiming for safety.

throwaway_0x90

I just have one question about fsd. If an FSD active vehicle gets into an accident, who is liable? Is Tesla going to be the target of all lawsuits? Or to avoid that mess, never allow FSD to be called "fsd". Instead keeping it as "assisted driving" requiring a human to be attentive at the whell at all times?

Dismal_Tomorrow_244

Only brokies and commies hate on Tesla Drive a model S and compare it to the other electric cars on the market. It is literally in a class of its own. Regardless, Tesla is a data mining and deep research company. Regards like myself give Tesla so much data on driving behaviours that will then be used for the FSD cars/transports of the near future It’s def worth an investment

ultra_nick

For engineers, there's an even clearer reason why Tesla will win. Their data access and compute allow them to work in iterative improvement cycles at about 10X the rate of other companies. Even if Tesla FSD is dead last now, they will be at the front of the pack by the end of this year.

davestewart53

The part that amazes me is that the dick head has sold FSD add on since 2015 when is someone going to sue him for charging for a feature that doesn’t work or exist to this day it is commonly known as criminal fraud

shawman123

You missed "supervised" FSD.

lucifer4you

I received a comment today in response to something I wrote about FSD that said "Fool Self Driving". I think it may be the dumbest comment I've read, and on so many levels.

LVegasGuy

No, TSLA is not another Enron. It is a real company. However, it is fair to question its future with growing competition and Elon betting the company on FSD which he has been promising for 8 years.

spornerama

FSD Full Self Denial

dflame45

I can’t afford FSD so I paid regular price lol

Kruzat

I get that words are hard but this articles is about AP not FSD

SuperNewk

How does FSD handle edge cases? Example in theory it should know from previous teslas that a cop is a head, road hazard/pot hole is ahead from previous cars driving. Yet it doesn’t. Or how does it handle a ball crossing the street. A normal driver will slow down ASAP as it means a kid might run out. Unlimited cases that will come up as masses use it

waxheartzZz

Before I read the article: I assume this is just some "flaw" that a normal driver wouldn't even do better. Basically if there is a wreck at all, it could be blamed on FSD in theory. Now reading: "956 crashes in which Tesla Autopilot **was thought** to have been in use." Yikes to that already. So in theory we don't even know there is a safety issue at all. WOW: "NHTSA report said. The system did not “sufficiently ensure driver attention and appropriate use.” NHTSA’s filing pointed to a “weak driver engagement system,” and Autopilot that stays switched on even when a driver isn’t paying adequate attention to the road or the driving task." LMFAO LMFAO so this article is just that people weren't paying attention? Calls it is I guess.

UnDosTresPescao

Yup. It's annoying as fuck if you look away or take your hands off the wheel. I bet more than half these people were not even on FSD and are just making excuses for their shitty driving.

krapmon

They should’ve marketed it as FSD included in regular price but give us the option to “discount” 12k if we don’t want it.

tanrgith

Why are you in an autopilot thread spam posting about FSD?

bro-v-wade

No. Faulty autopilot software designed to Self Drive and marketed as "Full Self-driving" is the culprit. If Tesla marketed the FSD subscription as autopilot, this wouldn't be an issue.

Charomid

This is actually insane! My question is, even though a Tesla has “FSD”, how can an insurance company, insure you? If an accident was caused, even if it wasn’t your fault, can’t they say “well you weren’t paying attention and if you were, you could have avoided that guy driving into you”? I just don’t understand how or WHY any insurance company would take on this liability

siqiniq

I worry about those people just filming themselves fucking around (aka procreating) while FSD