XMR

VariationPleasant940

Stop thinking that XMR makes it fully anonymous, sure it's harder and requires more resources to decipher the blockchain, but for that kind of big fish, that still won't make it

Kehmor

That's not what's being argued. The replier asserted that the government could control "your" crypto. I don't know about you but I'm not trading in amounts where using XMR or ZEC would be an issue.

relephants

Yeah it's really hard to find info. Monero def is up there if not #1. Don't know why anyone would use BTC over XMR for darknet stuff lol

7101334

You're right, I can only find Hollandfintech source that puts BTC at 91% and XMR at 79%. But that was 3 years ago, which is a long time in crypto years.

mel2000

> Just off the top of my head, it could be converted to XMR or ZEC Not in the large quantities needed by Bad Actor countries.

Killintym

Just off the top of my head, it could be converted to XMR or ZEC, they could even track me doing it, but once it comes out, it would be completely anonymous and they could never know. And that’s not even including micro transactions to break up the transactions, hide the total amounts. Sure, people are naïve to think all Crypto is anonymous. Yeah that’s true, but there are very easy workarounds and you don’t even have to be a computer science major, you just have to have basic understanding of how the crypto space works.

mister10percent

I agree in that haveno looks v complicated to set up. I haven’t even tried. As for an alternative for now the cake wallet ltc-XMR swap still works fine

3meterflatty

You lose like $2 swapping from LTC to XMR pretty simple on trocador.app

-Monero

--You can buy this comment reply just for 0.0001 XMR--

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is a Monero con-argument written by FrogsDoBeCool. > cointest copied from Frogs do be cool (me) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > disclaimer: I own no monero > > # Monero, some cons > > * XMR won't be adopted globally. > * Monero due to its regulation and straight-up banning on most exchanges, won't be adopted. It's pretty obvious why, but to spell it out more, people who can't buy monero, can't use it. Why not buy it on defi? it looks like defi exchanges may be able to be regulated too! meaning monero can't be exchanged for other currencies. > * The price doesn't do much > * That's because of the supply, as of now, there will be a constant amount of xmr made now than ever. That's fine as a currency, but now the price won't be doing 10x's or 5x's like bitcoin. That's great as a privacy feature and removes issues of 51% attacks, but at an expense of the price ever going up and staying up. adding to my point above, monero has no worth if it cannot be exchanged with other currencies, the price could be infinite, or $0, doesn't matter when nothing will be exchanged for it. > * its reputation > * XMR is known by people who don't own crypto as "the shady tax evader coin" or "criminal coin" and other things to do with crime. There's no doubt that in the crypto sphere the simplest fud can kill a project, remember Elon musk removing bitcoin from their payment systems? China, again, for the 45000th time... > * Its most popular wallet has some issues, mymonero > * a reddit user was quoted "I am constantly met with errors, crashes, and a frozen program" "My wallet froze and I couldn't even delete wallets or restore. I tried reinstalling and every time the problem would not resolve itself. I had to finally restore my seed on a different wallet." the response was not exactly the most in-depth or helpful. "We are aware of an issue when the computer goes to sleep or power saving mode and will be addressed in future patch." [src](https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/i22fd9/why_is_my_monero_wallet_so_bad_i_find_there_is/) > * the cons of monero are pretty intense, as regulation comes to push it down, other things like wallets that support monero, its reputation, and the tokenomics suffer. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find submissions for other topics.

mymongoose

Haha maybe but the only reason XMR is being attacked and delisted is *because it actually works* People buy BTC if they just want more of the existing fiat system People buy XMR if they want to *escape* the fiat system

CompletelyRandy

I have been using the same process for years. Buy LTC on Coinbase, send LTC to Cakewallet, swap to XMR, send XMR to where ever it needs to go. Never knew they had a website with cheaper fees... The process with their app is pretty smooth and hassle free.

Deep-Seaweed6172

HoudiniSwap. You send basically whatever you have there and choose XMR as receiving currency. Works very well for me.

mymongoose

Think about it - consider the SVB fiasco and then imagine that your own bank is failing How do you get out? Not just out of *your* bank, but out of banking? You can’t withdraw to cash, not in large amounts… You can transfer to another bank but then you’re in the same place… Why can’t you just withdraw all your money to your local custody using digital means? This is what crypto solves and it’s why governments are terrified of it Remember these oligarchs can themselves escape to tax havens and keep their money separate and private (not exposed to the dark banking risk), but YOU cannot Why do you think XMR Monero has had such a negative sentiment from the feds? Its the perfect escape

iamthestigscousin

I've been using [ChangeNow](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.changenow.changenow). Have used it a few times, seems to work fine. GBP > Kraken (or your exchange of choice) > Buy XLM (it's stable, fast, cheap) > ChangeNow (to convert XLM to XMR) > Personal Monero wallet

PreventableMan

That is not what XMR is being used for.

PreventableMan

Ah, so XMR is still mainly for drug dealers and tax evaders?

Life-Duty-965

I just used one of the many conversion sites out there. Send them some BTC and they send you XMR. They take a cut via the exchange rate but you can work out if it's good value or not. Last time I did it the fee taken seemed negligible versus daily movement of BTC price anyway.

Life-Duty-965

The appeal of XMR is privacy. I don't think anyone is "investing" in it so much. They want to do private transactions. And probably not with the "general public" either.

neo101b

I use cakewallet and sideshift to go from LTC to XMR, its cheaper to do via the website than the app. There is also changenow, though people are complaining about it, I have never had any issues.

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is a Monero con-argument written by mic_droo. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find submissions for other topics.

vinibarbosa

**Crypto wallet adds pay-per-use access to premium subscription AIs** [**https://finbold.com/crypto-wallet-adds-pay-per-use-access-to-premium-subscription-ais/**](https://finbold.com/crypto-wallet-adds-pay-per-use-access-to-premium-subscription-ais/) "The popular crypto wallet, Cake Wallet, has added support to a pay-per-use artificial intelligence (AI) platform that allows access to premium APIs like ChatGPT-4, Dall-E 3, Claude 3 Opus, and more. Finbold exclusively talked to the companies’ founders about using cryptocurrencies for payments in their services. Now, Cake Wallet users can pay-per-use premium AI chatbots directly from their cryptocurrency self-custody address with Nano (XNO). Moreover, it is possible to swap other supported cryptocurrencies in-app, such as Bitcoin (BTC), Monero (XMR), Litecoin (LTC), Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Polygon-based USDT, USDC, and others." >

-TrustyDwarf-

Depends on what you're looking for.. if it should be the easiest way possible, get a wallet that lets you buy crypto right in the app using credit cards, apple pay or similar. Open the app, create a wallet, click buy and you're pretty much done. Buying crypto that way usually comes with a certain fee, probably around 3%. A possible wallet is Cake Wallet (search app store). Pick a crypto that's acceptable for both parties and maybe cheap and fast to transfer.. something like Litecoin (LTC), Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Nano (XNO) or even Monero (XMR, if you want some privacy).. their fees are in the range of cents or less. If you're looking for the cheapest way possible, don't use credit cards but sign up at an exchange, deposit fiat money (usually there are free options), then buy and withdraw crypto on the exchange. Fees are usually much lower that way (like 0.3% instead of 3%). Have fun.

Etrensce

Great use Kraken then, while your at it don't forget to ask Kraken why they are delisting XMR in Germany.

MoneroFox

> *You expected them to answer fairly commercially sensitive questions in an open forum AMA? Lol.* For example, Kraken has no problem answering such basic common questions. > *Well why do you care anymore, the platform doesn't support XMR anymore so you should be happy right?* I will be happy when all these scammers like Binance, HitBTC, Poloniex, WazirX, ... fall into the abyss.

Etrensce

You expected them to answer fairly commercially sensitive questions in an open forum AMA? Lol. Well why do you care anymore, the platform doesn't support XMR anymore so you should be happy right?

oShievy

I’m very beginner to this so please mind my basic question. Say you are trying to preserve your privacy. You’ve bought some BTC from a KYC exchange such as Coinbase. You now have two options to give yourself better privacy: 1. ⁠either coin joining using join market or wasabi, then sending to a brand new BTC wallet with no txs. 2. ⁠swapping BTC to XMR on something like changenow, sending to a monero wallet, then swapping back to BTC and sending to brand new BTC wallet Which one of these options are more ideal? Or are they both good?

VulcanMK

I’m very beginner to this so please mind my basic question. Say you are trying to preserve your privacy. You’ve bought some BTC from a KYC exchange such as Coinbase. You now have two options to give yourself better privacy: 1. either coin joining using join market or wasabi, then sending to a brand new BTC wallet with no txs. 2. swapping BTC to XMR on something like changenow, sending to a monero wallet, then swapping back to BTC and sending to brand new BTC wallet Which one of these options are more ideal? Or are they both good?

7101334

Personally, I don't do meme coins, just like I don't do lotto tickets... but every coin I tried buying based on well-researched fundamentals ate shit (RIP ALGO, ATOM, HNT). So it's not like my approach is working either lol. Even XMR is down like 50% from my cost basis, although I viewed that half as an investment, half as a monetary commitment to a world where DNMs exist (which I dont even use lmao but *I believe in their existence*). I bought BTC when it was at $7,000. Used it to buy cannabis seeds and didn't hold more than like $20, which turned into like $65 or something eventually. If I recall correctly, I could've bought a whole coin then, but with the concerns in my life at that time, it just would've been a stupid decision. So I don't really regret it, but I still think "fuck, shit" about it sometimes. And if I could buy a whole coin now, or even when it was at $30k, I don't think I would. The fundamentals don't make sense. It went from "decentralized currency" to "oops that didn't work, it's a hedge against inflation" to "oops that didn't work, it's a store of value" to "oops that didn't work, just wait bro it's gonna be huge"

nick_117

It sure is interesting looking at the XMR chart after it was delisted everywhere. It's acting like BTC promises it will one day - like a stable store of value. Gaining slightly on BTC / staying ahead of inflation. But with most speculators gone it turns out it works as intended.

OfWhomIAmChief

Im not sure Im understanding what you mean, if you are referring to the source BTC atomic swapping to XMR it is irrelevant because XMR is fungible and the XMR you receive isnt tied to the source BTC. The problem arises if you buy BTC off coinbase then swap it for XMR, the exchange may follow the BTC you purchased and assume wherever it ends up it was yours to begin with if that makes sense.

nick_117

Here is the big difference. Uniswap can't go to fiat and the transactions are public. If you're a criminal uniswap doesn't help you much. Say you swap your tainted ETH for USDT. You still can't unload that USDT because the transaction was public. They saw your signature they know where the swapped USDT went. They will continue to watch that address. At this point there is "tainted" ETH in the pool and someone else might get it in a swap. But not really, the taint has transferred to the swapped USDT. If someone did pull the tainted ETH out of the pool and tried to cash out at a CEX they might give them a hard time initially l. However, it would be easy to prove looking at the chain they aren't the criminal. The criminal has the problem that the USDT they swapped for is still known and now it's also been tainted. They need to do a swap where the address can't be traced. Or start "spending" it to other addresses that they actually control but aren't obvious by looking at the chain that they do control them. Ie they have lots of other legitimate transactions this could just be the hacker "paying" people with stolen funds. Those people are most at risk when trying to cash out their funds of a CEX calling the cops. On Haveno, they could swap their ETH to XMR. At this point they are gone. You could see who holds the ETH now and maybe conclude it was just the attacker moving wallets. But probably not because liquidity won't be high enough on Haveno to support offloading millions at one time. It will look like they are "paying" someone. Once the attacker has XMR they can do another swap on Haveno to cash. Even if you monitored everyone's bank account you wouldn't know which transaction was the attacker moving to cash because there is no way to know the wallet the XMR went to when they traded it for ETH. On Haveno it wouldn't even be possible to know they did a trade to monero / used Haveno. All you would see is the hacker transferring the ETH to some new address. Maybe it's the hackers friend, maybe it's the hacker with another address who knows. There isn't a smart contract to inspect showing the details. It was just a transfer. Let's say there was a smart contract - now we are talking about atomic swaps. In this case you still wouldn't be able to track the hacker anymore. You could see they swapped ETH to XMR with someone and that's it. You wouldn't be able to taint the XMR coins because they are private. You couldn't watch a wallet address to see if it moved funds because that's also private. At this point there is nothing more you could prove about the attacker unless you had their XMR wallet private keys.

valcyclovir

Interesting. That means using Uniswap or any DEX to exchange any alts to ETH will carry the same risks of receiving tainted ETH, correct? I'm interested in the swap options offered by XMR (Haveno and Serai) but I want to know how that will fare against Houdiniswap or other alternatives.

valcyclovir

Well the goal is to use XMR as a way to preserve privacy so swapping into XMR then out to BTC / ETH chain, like how Houdiniswap uses XMR as a tunnel to preserve privacy. Would that mean the BTC / ETH output could be flagged?

OfWhomIAmChief

If you swap into XMR you dont have to worry about receiving flagged BTC or ETH but if youre swapping into BTC and ETH, yes that problem is possible but it can be avoided by remaining p2p and not sending those flagged coins to any CEX.

jwinterm

Also serai dex is coming soon, on testnet now, which will allow uniswap style reading for BTC, ETH, XMR, and DAI.

OfWhomIAmChief

Monero native DEX Haveno is in beta rn, Serai is another DEX in the works, although it is not Monero native. Atmoic swaps for BTC <> XMR have been live for a year or more now also ETH <> XMR atomic swaps have more recently been released.

acecardx321

I only have BTC, ETH, and LINK. I’ve been DCAing since 2021. I hit my ETH and LINK goals. I will continue to DCA into BTC. What are some recommendations on some other alts. Right now, I’m looking at ADA, XTZ, XRP, XMR, & STX.

ziclon88

Dude, I studied computer science, I'm surround by geeks, I've heard of BTC in 2011 when it costed a few $s (and I know 2 guys that made it really well in live). Most people I know are tech savvy, yet apart from those 2, only a few guys only got into BTC when it really became mainstream back in 2017, since then most sold and stopped caring, a few guys hold ADA because we like tech and ADA is where the good geeky stuff is, one was a ETH miner when it was PoW then sold and stopped, other guy still is a BTC miner and myself XMR miner. The rest ignored crypto altogether. The thing is, back in 2017, BTC and crypto was a new "next big thing", young and old, more or less tech savvy tried it and either liked it or not. In 20'24, the majority of people already know what crypto is, and they either had a good time and profit or are holding bags or were scammed and say crypto as a whole is a scam. And newcomers have lots of info at hand to make decent decisions. BTC lost its p2p e-cash purpose and you need to touch grass if you think otherwise. BTC only survives thanks to its history, catchy name, old wallets, hype and mainstream spotlight attention.

Big-Finding2976

OK, that's something I guess. Why don't they just trade XMR for cash directly though?

nick_117

No. You can only do cash by mail to buy BTC and then trade BTC for XMR

Big-Finding2976

So I can't send cash by mail to buy XMR like I could with LocalMonero?

_BannedAcctSpeedrun_

Why would I use btc like a currency when it’s mainly a storage of value due to the fact it’s a limited and deflationary asset. Do you pay for things in solid gold coins? If I’m paying for something in crypto it’s probably USDC on a crypto card, or XMR buying things I probably can’t mention here.

wYsock

Is XMR gonna crash because of this?

_Rael

Well, they started closing sites like Localmonero. You’ll have to resort to shady DEx’s to move your XMR.

PreventableMan

Let's see if we can spin this as good news for XMR. The CEX news that was touted to be good, which did not work out. Maybe this time?

Blackstar030405

Is haveno another site similar to local Monero? I was able to buy a little bit of XMR on Kucoin and transfer to my cake wallet before Kucoin implemented KYC

nick_117

BTC, XMR. Read the news today about the government continuing to target privacy. XMR will only grow in value as DEXs expand and it becomes the only reliable way to stay anonymous.

FuckAntiMaskers

Which XMR wallet is good? Need to get them off kraken before it's delisted 

RatherOakyAfterbirth

Calling bullshit on days on Coinbase. Been using Coinbase since inception.  Have always been notified at least two weeks in advanced and multiple times before the delist date comes. If you choose to ignore several warnings, that’s on you. When they delisted XMR I got three emails the week of delisting alone. 

RatherOakyAfterbirth

Not forced to sell. Delisting notices come with weeks to months advanced notice and do not require you to sell. You can move to self custody or to another exchange that continues to list the coin.  I’ve been through several delistings line XRP and XMR, still have all my holdings, never need to sell. Delisted from Kraken, Coinbase and Binance, all of them let me know delisting would happen several weeks in advance. And gave explicit instructions on what your options were prior to delisting. You should watch his MIT courses on ICOs and DAOs he has maintained since teaching those courses that they are potentially securities. Which ETH falls squarely within. Again, you’re misinformed on Gensler’s knowledge and outlook on the space. 

ShinobiHanzo

OTC XMR is untraceable.

WorldlyReplacement24

Yea and also you must remember that during the Monero Run, a lot of people began to take custody of their own XMR.

biba8163

> western government's war against encryption and privacy enhancing technologies this summary I think is amiss without at least a mention of Monero. - 2014 Monero launched - 2019 - First exchanges begin to delist Monero - 2020 - IRS offers $625,000 bounty to crack Monero's privacy * not sure how accurate these dates are so XMR enthusiasts correct me

aTomatoFarmer

Should’ve used XMR

Ok_Analysis_1304

It's the main source of currency on the dark web, and also plenty of normal everyday users on things like Moneromarket.io and other services like VPNs for example IVPN among others. Recently it was moneros 10th anniversary and someone or group donated about 6000 XMR to the general fund over the course of the month. It was insane. You can see development and funding are strong.

Desperate_Place8485

btc is the only true crypto for people who only look at price. XMR is the only true crypto for those that are in it for the tech. Looking at history (Tesla vs. Edison), (Steve vs. Steve), those interested in price come out most popular/on top. I'm on the tech side, but I admit that it probably won't lead to the most gains.

p3r72sa1q

>But if you want to invest in rising crypto prices then XMR isn't a good bet You don't invest in currencies. You use them. Bitcoin is a shit currency, but a good store of value (deflationary). XMR is a great currency, but a terrible investment.

snowmanyi

XMR has outperformed 99% of cryptos launched when it was launched. They were relegated to the dustbin of history, yet XMR remains. Ofc it's not Bitcoin but Bitcoin is in a world of its own.

Whatever14x

Where to buy XMR now?  Need to be easiest way

WR3CKONER

Hell yeah XMR, thank you for posting this. If you want real privacy , decentralization, and financial freedom buy monero.

y0l0tr0n

It is mainstream as it is the way to go to do your untraceable purchases. What you mean that it won't "moon" as an financial asset to invest it. In it's niche it is the absolute way to go. But if you want to invest in rising crypto prices then XMR isn't a good bet

nazuralift89

Someone help! I tried to withdraw my XMR from Binance, but I can't *see* it!!

siviconta

XMR the only true crypto

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is a Monero con-argument written by FrogsDoBeCool. > cointest copied from Frogs do be cool (me) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > disclaimer: I own no monero > > # Monero, some cons > > * XMR won't be adopted globally. > * Monero due to its regulation and straight-up banning on most exchanges, won't be adopted. It's pretty obvious why, but to spell it out more, people who can't buy monero, can't use it. Why not buy it on defi? it looks like defi exchanges may be able to be regulated too! meaning monero can't be exchanged for other currencies. > * The price doesn't do much > * That's because of the supply, as of now, there will be a constant amount of xmr made now than ever. That's fine as a currency, but now the price won't be doing 10x's or 5x's like bitcoin. That's great as a privacy feature and removes issues of 51% attacks, but at an expense of the price ever going up and staying up. adding to my point above, monero has no worth if it cannot be exchanged with other currencies, the price could be infinite, or $0, doesn't matter when nothing will be exchanged for it. > * its reputation > * XMR is known by people who don't own crypto as "the shady tax evader coin" or "criminal coin" and other things to do with crime. There's no doubt that in the crypto sphere the simplest fud can kill a project, remember Elon musk removing bitcoin from their payment systems? China, again, for the 45000th time... > * Its most popular wallet has some issues, mymonero > * a reddit user was quoted "I am constantly met with errors, crashes, and a frozen program" "My wallet froze and I couldn't even delete wallets or restore. I tried reinstalling and every time the problem would not resolve itself. I had to finally restore my seed on a different wallet." the response was not exactly the most in-depth or helpful. "We are aware of an issue when the computer goes to sleep or power saving mode and will be addressed in future patch." [src](https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/i22fd9/why_is_my_monero_wallet_so_bad_i_find_there_is/) > * the cons of monero are pretty intense, as regulation comes to push it down, other things like wallets that support monero, its reputation, and the tokenomics suffer. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find submissions for other topics.

MoneroFox

Binance doesn't have all the XMR, it only buys up on an ongoing basis, as needed. Most of the time XMR withdrawals are closed. After all, this is the basic business model of Binance, it holds 100% of the reserves of only the main coins (see proof of reserves). As Binance writes in its statement, XMR will probably not be converted to stablecoins. So the "sale" will not take place. Coins just disappear - since they don't really exist.

GMEthLoopring

You know what would be smart as fuck? Shorting XMR right before that, so people who never withdrew their XMR will get auto sold into a stablecoin… slightly dropping the market? Though, I don’t know where is left to short xmr anyways

trimalcus

Wait until they stop supporting XMR. Hoping I am wrong

ziclon88

Nobody wants to use BTC as currency anyway, too slow and too expensive. Use XMR as anyone else.

xen91

have you though about the transaction fees? If a customer is paying in BTC and there is a $100 transaction fee on top and a 6+ hour wait for the transaction to go through, they might prefer to pay with a credit card... You could use lightening etc, but I just can't get my head around it, seems like a bodge to me. But other cryptos like LTC , XMR , etc are cheap and fast, but not so well used... so not sure what the answer is. Maybe offer a 10% discount if they pay in LTC or XMR ?

Downtown_Feedback665

I’d take a gander to say there might be less than 10 actual use cases. BTC is always gunna BTC, but past that there’s: Remittance - eg XLM Supply chain/logistics - eg Hyperledger Fabric Privacy - eg XMR Decentralized compute/Web3/smart contracts - eg ETH Contracts or real estate - eg companies like RealBlocks Decentralized Finance - eg AAVE Government processes - eg Estonia. The country. Decentralized Autonomous Organizations (DAOs) - eg UNI, MakerDAO Honestly I can’t think of any more actual use cases that make sense. People will say gaming, I don’t buy it People will say IoT, I don’t buy it People will say voting, I don’t buy it People will say for the memes, I don’t buy it There might be 50ish crypto companies all legitimately vying for the use cases I mentioned, and in good faith I might add. However, the power law should wipe out most of the competitors within our lifetimes. Which leads to maybe 10-20 real companies and more than 14k failed projects, scams, and Ponzi schemes.

fapthepolice

The events mentioned on the government site are before the creation of XMR.

tech32spn

You are correct and for this very reason, I prefer focusing on pure digital cash solution s.a. BTC, NANO, XMR, instead of throwing funds into the Nth hyperinflationary-ponzi pretending to provide the panacea to a non existing problem.

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is a Monero con-argument written by FrogsDoBeCool. > cointest copied from Frogs do be cool (me) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > disclaimer: I own no monero > > # Monero, some cons > > * XMR won't be adopted globally. > * Monero due to its regulation and straight-up banning on most exchanges, won't be adopted. It's pretty obvious why, but to spell it out more, people who can't buy monero, can't use it. Why not buy it on defi? it looks like defi exchanges may be able to be regulated too! meaning monero can't be exchanged for other currencies. > * The price doesn't do much > * That's because of the supply, as of now, there will be a constant amount of xmr made now than ever. That's fine as a currency, but now the price won't be doing 10x's or 5x's like bitcoin. That's great as a privacy feature and removes issues of 51% attacks, but at an expense of the price ever going up and staying up. adding to my point above, monero has no worth if it cannot be exchanged with other currencies, the price could be infinite, or $0, doesn't matter when nothing will be exchanged for it. > * its reputation > * XMR is known by people who don't own crypto as "the shady tax evader coin" or "criminal coin" and other things to do with crime. There's no doubt that in the crypto sphere the simplest fud can kill a project, remember Elon musk removing bitcoin from their payment systems? China, again, for the 45000th time... > * Its most popular wallet has some issues, mymonero > * a reddit user was quoted "I am constantly met with errors, crashes, and a frozen program" "My wallet froze and I couldn't even delete wallets or restore. I tried reinstalling and every time the problem would not resolve itself. I had to finally restore my seed on a different wallet." the response was not exactly the most in-depth or helpful. "We are aware of an issue when the computer goes to sleep or power saving mode and will be addressed in future patch." [src](https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/i22fd9/why_is_my_monero_wallet_so_bad_i_find_there_is/) > * the cons of monero are pretty intense, as regulation comes to push it down, other things like wallets that support monero, its reputation, and the tokenomics suffer. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find submissions for other topics.

ForthInLine

Monero (XMR). Everything else is trash.

Specialist-Address98

Asymptotically stable tail emissions are arguably beneficial for any crypto, because it filters out people from the community who just mindlessly think "iNflAtioN bAd". Gold has higher inflation than Monero, and it's the asset with the highest market cap. If somebody wants to hedge against Monero's inflation, they just buy enough to own a desired fraction of the whole supply at a certain time in the future. For example, if somebody wants 1 millionth of the supply of XMR in 2140, they would buy 37 XMR.

DazzlingSecurity5

Chia XCH, Zcash ZEC, Monero XMR

MunificentDancer

What's the point of just repeatedly commenting BTC when 5 people have already said lol, also anyone on this probably already know this. I'm just gonna name 2 for the long term KAS and XMR

TinglingTongue

I gotta admit I am guilty of taking a photo of them with my phone, knowing I shouldn't. I'll actually write it down and delete any virtual copies. Is there any downside in scraping a wallet and creating a new one after every transaction? Is this doable? I'm thinking this could be an extra easy step, since I don't plan on holding any XMR for any later purposes, just payments. What are your thoughts on that?

GrandmasGiantGaper

That might be correct, but doesn't mean it was a good investment, and clearly it wasn't. XMR probably has the worst annual chart compared to any other altcoin that is widely spoken about online. The deplatforming of XMR started years ago, didn't just begin with Binance delisting.

EndSmugnorance

I’m interested to hear why you think tail emission is bad? The reward of 0.6 XMR per block won’t exceed Bitcoin supply until 2040. Inflation rate is <1%, ensures miners will be incentivized forever, and keeps transaction fees low.

GrandmasGiantGaper

Monero would've always had value until they changed the tail emissions to print XMR forever which means it'll just inflate over time. That's why I dumped it middle of last year after bag holding down 60%

TinglingTongue

Thanks a lot for such a thorough reply! So you say that instead of sending the XMR to another wallet, it is possible to restore the seed on the destination wallet. I’ll have to look into that, as I have no idea how to do that or what it means really, but I wanna learn it, regardless the low fees, seems like smtn i wanna know how to do. About tails…I’m pretty sure i did set up the persistent volume. After doing that, i installed feather, created my wallet, restarted tails, and after unlocking my persistent volume, my wallet was still there with the same name. This is it right? I’m not missing anything here, am I?

Ur_mothers_keeper

Electrum doesn't support Monero. On a desktop, you've got basically feather and the official Monero GUI from https://getmonero.org (a security thing, don't ever google it and then click a search result, type it in exactly like that to avoid malware from a phishing site, now that you're getting into self custody, never ever ever google a website to do crypto stuff from, always type in the right address, and even better bookmark them if you go to them more than once, sometimes people buy fatfinger domains like bictoin.com or something so typing can be dangerous too). They're both fantastic and both run the same back end under the hood, I like the classic sort of environment feather has over all the modern flat graphics of the official GUI but that's personal preference. Just FYI, you don't have to send the XMR over to a new wallet, you can get your XMR seed from cake wallet and restore it there, but Monero fees are so cheap it's really no big deal to send it to a new one, just make sure you can write down and keep track of both seeds. A note on tails: it's not persistent by default, it resets everything when you shut down, so if you're installing software, running Monero and particularly syncing the blockchain every time you're using it, you'll need to set up a persist volume. https://gist.github.com/mc2pw/aeb4ca3972fea54d4858#persistence in case you didn't know that already.

nick_117

XMR for sure. When people talk about if chains have "real world use" they always leave our XMR. Privacy for everyone is a real world use that no other chain solves as well as XMR and will only become more valuable as the surveillance state expands.

ziclon88

long term? XMR because decentralization and ppl will eventually value privacy ADA because decentralization and all the good tech and good values are there ETH and BTC because mainstream apes see them as "safe bets"

drzood

Yep you might make 0.01 XMR by 2030.

MoneroFox

Just buy Monero and ignore other coins. If you do not have the opportunity to buy Monero directly, then buy some other coin that is not as popular (and closely monitored) as BTC and does not have such high transaction fees. For example BCH. Then exchange it for Monero. Monero is the best, but it is not omnipotent. If you buy 1 XMR at the exchange and then you send it directly somewhere, expect problems. Protect yourself. Have your own wallet full of coins and pay whenever you need. Once in a while, make a new wallet and empty and delete the old one. Buy coins only occasionally, randomly and always elsewhere, most of your data goes directly to Chainalysis (or similar companies).

PhoenixJ3

The main reason that merchants such as Steam and Microsoft stopped accepting crypto wasn't anything to do with the MSM. The problem was that when they tried accepting BTC people loved it and started using it, then transaction fees went through the roof and no one wants to pay $5+ in tx fees to buy a game. BTC doesn't scale and merchants experienced buyer friction first hand. They could solve this by accepting other crypto that can scale (BCH, XMR, etc.), but once they were burned by BTC they assumed all crypto would have the same problem and are now afraid to touch crypto. BTC's failure to scale with demand set all crypto back at least a decade.

NationalCat8361

Yeah, XMR is certainly good-for-nothing blockchain.

OfWhomIAmChief

Localmonero may be a honeypot, but atomic swaps exist for BTC <> XMR. I find the timing of the Samourai devs arrest to be interesting. They recently incorporated atomic swaps into their wallet for Monero then less than a month later they get arrested/seized. DEXs such as serai and Moner native Haveno are on the horizon but retail is still light yeara behind and rely on CEX's to get Monero, the last of which is Kraken.

vinibarbosa

I have received payments in cryptocurrency since 2020. First, partially, in exchange for a few writing gigs; but now I'm fully paid in crypto and I currently feed my family with these payments. My first choice is Nano (XNO). 1. Zero fees make a huge difference in the long term for both the sender (who pays) and the receiver (myself). 2. Deterministic finality makes sure the transaction is irreversible as soon as it receives the first confirmation. 3. Finality in \~600ms on average gives the security of a successful settlement and diminishes the price-spread risk from the time the payment was sent to the time the payment is received and can be liquidated (if desired) by the receiving party. This is also often overlooked, but as of great importance in such a volatile market. I would also gladly use Monero (XMR) due to its privay-by-default characteristic; or take other efficient decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin Cash (BCH) or Litecoin (LTC). XNO and XMR are my two favorite options, tho.

MoneroArbo

So true. At least XMR withdrawals still have reasonable fees!

conceiv3d-in-lib3rty

I’ve all but stopped using Kraken at this point (except for XMR) because of the withdrawal fees after being a customer since ~2015. I off-ramp every 2 weeks and Coinbase’s integration with USDC and free ACH withdrawals just makes it a no brainer for me.

mymongoose

Monero $XMR is very suited to this use case - fees are around a cent, and peer to peer transactions are exactly what Monero is used for every day

nick_117

That's true. I just think it's interesting because XMR appears to have become what BTC wants to become. A relatively safe store of value. It's still too early to tell but the signs on the graph are good. There aren't major price movements with the stock market or BTC anymore. As long as it grows more than inflation year of year you could view it as a fully capitalized BTC.

purplecowz

I think XMR holders specifically care less about the price action of BTC because they are lawless rebels. Lol

Somebody__Online

Personally I only use XMR when buying stuff that requires XMR. I never hold it long term. I usually do t even source it until im shopping those markets. ZRX is one I only use the exchange contracts for but don’t hold tokens. I already have UNI tokens and consider that more the golden standard for open source trade products on Ethereum main net. It’s interesting to see more and more people commenting about projects they like and what they are choosing for their portfolios

FoolHooligan

>And as for XMR, it's not suitable for when payments need to be traced. What? Why would payments need to be traced aside from the fact that the payment was received?

HairyChest69

I was pretty disheartened to see XMR is being removed from Kraken as that's the only place I've bought it since learning about Crypto. Guess I'll try to load a bag before June.