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I agree that home ownership requires some financial stability to be prepared for potential unpredictability. Everything else, though.. most rentals are cash-positive for the property owners. Meaning rent covers all of what you described (property taxes, insurance, mortgage, HOA fees if applicable). Sure, repairs could set back that cashflow, but point still stands. I suppose you don't know me, but I rented and now own a home. I don't share your friends' complaints re: it being a huge pain. In fact, quite the opposite, I can't think of anyone I know who feels that regret. Sure the occasional "dammit need to do XYZ", but I'd still say I hear more complaints re: "my landlord sucks", "my neighbor sucks", "they still haven't repaired xyz", "my rent is increasing", "I can't renew and need to move again". I'm surely not saying that home ownership is for everyone, but in many cases it's a source of stability, wealth, and satisfaction. I'll also add that one thing I'd agree on is that today's interest rates make it a much harder decision than when you could grab a mortgage at sub-3%.
You never really own your home the US. Property taxes, insurance, if you hold a mortgage, HOA fees. That's all before maintenance and keeping the property in good shape. Roofs, electric, plumbing - especially in the colder states during the winter..
Like HOA’s ? Yeah those are a joke
Mortgage is the minimum you pay each month (plus repairs, taxes, HOA, etc). Rent is the maximum you will pay each month. Way less surprise or unexpected costs renting
"Can we own the property we're living in?" Not without counter party risk. When someone else has the power to take it from you at gunpoint, whether it be an invading army or your own government from you not paying taxes, it doesn't really feel like real "ownership" to me. I own a home, and I'm fully aware that Uncle Sam is my landlord. (shit, sometimes it even feels like the fkn HOA "owns" my place)
Yeah I'm sorry, but I don't believe that's a realistic scenario, either. Not calling you a liar. Maybe lucky, maybe a different market, but that's not happening here, either. Even a $160K property in my area that was freshly renovated and has no HOA is not renting for $1500. Zero chance.
It's very expensive to be a home owner besides the initial outlay of capital to buy the property. And housing market is rough right now since interest rates were jacked up. Homes are selling for 20%+ less than during the depop event. So someone selling is down 20% plus all the insurance, property taxes, HOA fees they paid over 2 years. "Wealth extraction" my ass.
Homeless can't afford them whether someone lives in them or not. And owning an empty million dollar house is not cheap. No homestead deduction so about $4000+ in property tax, $2000+ insurance, $1000+ for HOA dues. A few utility bills and it adds up fast.
Show me your math. It's actually quite a bit less in many high HCOL areas, but to be fair, one significant factor for me is that I live in Texas where property taxes are quite high. Here is a rough example I've seen, and these numbers are on the generous side $350,000 property $2,000 rent \* 12 = $24K cash in $5,000 annual property taxes $1,920 property management fees (8% rent) $2,000 average annual maintenance costs $400 insurance premium $3,000 HOA dues \---- $11,680 net positive cash flow 11,680/350000 = \~3.3% Yes, there is a lot of variability here, but this is an average/decent year for most renters. The "much less than 3%" thing mostly applies when you fall pray to one of the many non-negligible risks landlords face. Such as a deadbeat tenant, or expensive repairs like the ones I described above.
Landlording is great until you have to evict your tenant. 8 months of not collecting rent plus the place was left trashed all the while I was paying property taxes and HOA fees. I sold it. Paid off my mortgage in the house I live in and bought BTC. Living debt free just waiting for my BTC to be worth enough that I can quit my soul sucking job as well. I didn't even mention all the maintenance and repair costs over the years. Rental property never again. Investing in stocks can be good but can be risky as well. I really believe BTC is the highest return/lowest risk investment option there is right now. Its volatility is a stress inducing rollercoaster at times but I do think it will be less volatile and worth much more in time.
This is an annoying response. You can't just get a USDA loan on a house an hour outside of a major city. In many states an hour outside of the city is a suburb with even worse home pricing and HOA communities. When was the last time you actually looked at property outside any major US city to see what is available for a USDA loan? The amount of houses or property that qualify are extremely limited and far away from any towns that would allow for someone to make a living.
Hmmm, maybe you could buy the company, as in the Property management group that enforces your HOA
Own all the properties in an HOA and you basically own all the votes.
Haha I know (has an HOA) but one can dream! Lol
>your HOA has entered the chat< “I don’t fucking think so buddy”
I find that when most aspiring bitcoin miners say they have a “free” power source, it doesn’t actually turn out to be free for them once they start using it. For example, I knew someone who lived in an HOA condo community with external storage closets in the basement level. The storage closets had power outlets that did not count towards the unit owner’s electricity. The HOA covered the electricity cost of the storage units. So this someone plugged a miner and the HOA found out fairly quickly and had it shut down. There’s no such thing as “free” electricity.
Not everybody lives in a country where HOA have more power than the government. In fact, most people don’t.
Yes and no. If you have an HOA and don’t pay their fee they can pretty much take your home and kick your ass out. Also annual property taxes. For the vast majority of people, these are way cheap compared to a mortgage but I wouldn’t say you have total financial freedom.
I too see a house as shelter, not an investment. See Florida if you think otherwise (Insurance, property taxes, HOA etc)
lol Yeah tbh there's ups and downs when comparing the u.s. and europe. On one hand, in the u.s. election season news never stops, on the other hand here, compulsory voting. On one hand, no HOA's here, and in the u.s. you're screwed if you break a leg. On the other hand, working people here can pay up to 50% taxes on their income (assuming they're in the higher tax bracket, >68500€/y) I get 1000€ from the government each year to keep my education affordable, if i ended up homeless i'd get 10000€ a year to stay alive, on the other hand depending on the applicable law they'll try and tax away a third of my bitcoin earnings it's a mixed bag, the u.s. is good for moonshots and startups, people who wanna make it big, the EU is good for the average person
Entrenched mo fos! "In many jurisdictions, depending on applicable state law, the standard rule is that 80 percent of the members of the community must vote in favor of dissolving the HOA. This is typically the case, unless the HOA documents state otherwise or provide for a different rule.Apr 30, 2021"
That's a silly reason. until I read this!: "Today, around 27 percent of people in the US live in an HOA community, but participation is expected to grow, as 60 percent of new single-family homes are being built in HOA communities.Aug 16, 2023" Holy crap you were more right than I thought you were! And some articles have higher percentages of new homes built into HOAs They aren't as rare as I thought and I would have hoped increasingly getting a reputation like timeshares... Looks like America is becoming more fascist "7 TYPES OF UNENFORCEABLE HOA RULES"... Yet, They can be fought and often are. I'd rather live in a trailer park
I'd buy the bitcoin. Debt isn't inherently bad. Gets your credit score high to one day buy a house. I'm paying on two cars, a HOA and a credit card and im still buying bitcoin regularly
1. Eminent domain means the government pays you fair price for your house. You can buy anoher house with that money. 2. The idea is to not get into debt and live within means. Don't willingly get into debt and youlle be fine. In case of healthcare debt, you can always make monthly payment if $100 and do that for a decade. 3. Always check with HOA and get it in print. Most homeowners know this already. Always check with city before major construction. People know this stuff already especially if your a boomer. These are very unlikely situations. Like how many people do you know that lost there home due to HOA. I personally know 0. How many people do you know that lost home due to eminent domain, i personally know 0. I've met people who lost home due to debt, but this is the rule of thumb of life, to live below means. I know it's tough but life is a struggle for humans.
Usually have HOA fees with a house, too.
In my area they charge like $400-$500/mo for a HOA fee if you buy an apartment or condo
I/We retired in March 2020 exclusively off our Crypto account. I started in Crypto 10 years ago next month, so my first full BTC was at ~$275.00 I have no problems swing trading for our $1,500 per week allowance, for health and dental insurance, HOA, food, and stuff. Using the Debit Card for most purchases, depositing cash for things that don't accept debit cards (dental insurance). We are simple, we paid off everything before "retiring" vehicles were both (actually 4 cars 2 for the kids) purchased with Crypto proceeds in around 2017, so I will need to replace them soon, but they are fine for right now. I/We don't need fancy stuff. We sold the house, put everything into crypto, moved to a Condo, and paid it off immediately. Now I just play with the dog, and stare at the waterfalls from my window (the spouse is currently spending money in Hawaii) with my laptop up with the charts going... I should go to the gym here, but I won't. Is it fun during the bear market 🤔 No. But it will be fun now thru October 2025! And then we plan on spending... moving to Greece (or somewhere not called Turkey on the Mediterranean).
If the amount I sold left me with no mortgage, hell yes I would sell it. However, if it leaves you with a mortgage, the house is now a liability. If the house is about average this will leave you financing 3-4-500k. Take into consideration what interest rates were only a couple of years ago and you now find you are paying double the interest, thus increasing that liability. A $400k house and you put $80k down, leaving you $320k to finance. 7.77% on a 30yr has you paying $509k for interest alone over the life of the loan. That $400k house cost over $900k without paying for any HOA or Insurance, or repairs. If that interest was say 4%, your liability for the interest would only be $230k.
I cedar falls iowa I know a property that has a $17400 a year property tax and it’s .72 acre and 4300 soft plus a HOA of $700 a month
Property taxes HOA fees Cost of upkeep/maintenance Insurance Since we are talking about rich people, the cost of a cleaning staff If it's a rental property the added burden of dealing with potential problematic tenants. The cost/fees employing a property management company. ​ These are the costs that when taken together vs BTC, just will not make sense to anyone holding real estate for investment purposes. Bitcoin will absolutely gut the housing market, not a question of if, but when, and then hopfully housing can fall to it's price of utility once all or most of it's investment premium has disipated.
Disagree. Pay cheaper rent, no property taxes, no maintenance, no HOA fees and stack sats. Bitcoin is the best investment you'll ever make. Over 100% CAGR, which will obviously go down, but not yet.
It isn't that clear cut. You absolutely can lose money owning relative to renting. Real estate is a trade with large friction (\~3-5% trading costs with realtors), leveraged, and large carrying costs. If you overpay, want to move after less than 5 years, or need to sell in a down-market you get reked. Renting is great for me right now: I have access to amazing amenities, and someone else has to hire the landscapers, pool cleaners, repair the roof, replace broken blinds. Comparable places to buy have a total housing payment 2.5 my rent. And, the irrecoverable costs (HOA, tax, insurance) of would be 65% of my rent. It doesn't makes sense to buy at these levels, its just inflated because people can't save in fiat currency so they short the dollar with 30 year fixed loans. But I have bitcoin..
That's awesome. I live on a postage stamp lot with a shitty HOA so that's not an option for me. The wife and I would probably get a cottage in Italy and live out the rest of our days with grest wine and food.